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Old 03-01-2009, 08:17 PM   #41
cdill35
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Seriously tho, in the Isle of Mann vid, he almost looks like he will make it. But as he appoaches the next corner, he APPEARS to try to turn the bike and that sets it off again.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:36 PM   #42
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I've never had one - and am really a noob - never raced - but looking at the videos, I'm seeing the back tire getting sideways, kicking back and forth trying to get straight, which is throwing the back of the bike violently left and right, and when the rider holds on, he naturally counter-steers - the only part of his body in control of anything... and that sets the back tire to go the opposite way in a hurry - and the reaction to that keeps making it worse! I think you'd have to be very lucky to have the chance to let go, while not being thrown from the bike, and you'd have to be in a position to not roll off the road in a turn, and not be going downhill (you'd have a hard time getting off the bars...)

So I'd agree with both views, that letting the front wheel adapt to the back, while being very lucky seems right.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
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You lost me, all tank slappers are violent. And why didn't he have a chance? I know where you are coming from. I see videos like that and at first glance I think to myself he's screwed, there was nothing he could do to save it. Then I see a video like the one pictured below, also a pro, also a violent tank slapper, also at a high speed and also in a curve. Yet he doesn't lose it. Then I have to ask myself why? There has to be a reason.

there are some tank slapper that only last a few turns and not twitchy more like a headshakes as oppose to the one in the video. Squared has the answer to the question you asked.

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The guy in the video tells you exactly why. To quote the announcer "He was very lucky".

As has been stated in this thread, at high speeds it's as much luck as it is skill or experience. It doesn't always come down to skill, because there are a lot of variables you cannot control or may not even account for.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squared View Post
The guy in the video tells you exactly why. To quote the announcer "He was very lucky".

As has been stated in this thread, at high speeds it's as much luck as it is skill or experience. It doesn't always come down to skill, because there are a lot of variables you cannot control or may not even account for.
Luck is a word that people use when they canít explain away the laws of physics in any given situation. But when analyzed, where an intensive study has been done, in the end there will be answers. The luck will be explained.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Luck is a word that people use when they canít explain away the laws of physics in any given situation. But when analyzed, where an intensive study has been done, in the end there will be answers. The luck will be explained.
There are almost an infinite amount of variable for any given situation so it's hard to pinpoint what exactly started or stopped the headshake.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:43 AM   #46
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Grip the tank and get back on the gas to lift the front end.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #47
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There are almost an infinite amount of variable for any given situation so it's hard to pinpoint what exactly started or stopped the headshake.
Not really.

A detailed review of the chassis geometry, tires, suspension and rider input can give an excellent road map of how to fix it.
That being said, some bikes will be more prone to head shake than others, usually due to a combination of circumstances.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:45 AM   #48
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The fork rake will exagerate a tankslapper. Anyone that has owned an 02 CBR954 before having the triple tree update can give detailed buttpucker moments. A bike with 25degrees rake or under better have a damper. If your forks have too tight a rebound setting or not enough preload or compression it can intensify the action and recovery time. Landing wheelies a little crooked or hitting bumps can cause them, because at the same time when you compress the forks your steering rake decreases which makes the slapper worse. The fork tubes distort and flex when the wheel tries to roll in the direction it was planted and the wheel overshoots it's corrective plane over and over. Modern tire designs contribute to tankslappers too where ribbed type tires of yesteryears helped deter them.
It is a phase imbalance that initiates a tank slapper. The closer the forks are to 0 degrees compared to the 90degrees of the wheels rolling travel increase the chances dramatically.
Sorry about the geeky run-on but I have nothing better to do.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:06 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Not really.

A detailed review of the chassis geometry, tires, suspension and rider input can give an excellent road map of how to fix it.
That being said, some bikes will be more prone to head shake than others, usually due to a combination of circumstances.
I meant once it started. It makes sense that you could do things before hand to stop them.
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