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Old 10-02-2007, 01:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02 View Post
i didn't realize there were so many perfect drivers on the board. let me guess, you all wait until you're stopped to change the radio station or answer your cell phone and always wear your seat belts and never go over the speed limit and always use your blinkers and always stop at the stop sign for the appropriate amount of time and follow every traffic rule there is.
well, if you don't follow all the rules, and you're saying this person deserves to die, etc. for breaking one of them, just be thankful that you didn't mess up bad whenever you broke whatever traffic law because then it would be you who is the unfortunate "idiot".
i'm not saying this guy is totally innocent though. maybe he was completely negligent and just not paying attention at all, but i didn't gather that info from the article.
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Originally Posted by bdmpastx View Post
Wow, someone else actually has a brain here. I have tried to tell people that all the time. No one listens, they think because the party involved was on a motorcycle then they should have this higher than mighty status in the legal system. If the guy was hit in a patrol car, he'd probably still be here alive and we would dismiss it as just another wreck. Newsflash people, this is still just another wreck but contained a fatality unfortunantly. It doesn't matter what two vehicles were involved and we should look at it in the same light. Just because someone made a mistake in which a biker got hurt, we want to hang them. I have been the victim of a such incident so I know that in my heart, I wouldn't want the other party in prison forever or even killed. I lost the use of my legs but I am not bitter towards the driver that hit me. Now if he was drunk, then it would be a totally different story. But this guy was driving down a narrow roadway with out a place to run off. It wasn't the best senerio for making a stop. But why would we stop the blame there. I guess we could also hang the guy that was speeding and got pulled over in the first place. After all, he did cause the officer to be in harms way.
first off, i didn't even realize he was on a motorcycle... nor does it matter... i think it is crazy how someone can hit anything on the side of the road with bright flashing red and blue lights... how far must your head be up your to run into that?!?! i say fry the driver, even if they were on the cell phone or not on a cell phone... if they can't see red and blues then they sure as shouldn't be allowed to drive... there is no way they would see my tiny brake light if they can't see a cop with lights on the side of the road!!!

HOWEVER... if it was a mechanical failure of some sort, all of what i have just stated does not represent what i feel should happen.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:46 PM   #42
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touchy subject. If there was not a death in the accident then there would be a lot less fuss. if you jay walk, you get a jay walking ticket. If you jay walk and someone wrecks and dies avoiding you, you get a jay walking ticket. The man messed up. I think he will prolly look at a ticket for illegal lane usage, wreckless driving, or failure to slow or change lanes when passing a cop. I think something along those lines. The guy wasn't on drugs. He took his eyes off the road. prosecution will have a hard time trying to prove anything worse than a minor ticket. I feel for the family and friends of the officer. From the sounds of it this is a terrible [B]accident.[B] Have you ever taken your eyes off the road in front of you? I have for sure.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:49 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by bdmpastx View Post
Wow, someone else actually has a brain here. I have tried to tell people that all the time. No one listens, they think because the party involved was on a motorcycle then they should have this higher than mighty status in the legal system. If the guy was hit in a patrol car, he'd probably still be here alive and we would dismiss it as just another wreck. Newsflash people, this is still just another wreck but contained a fatality unfortunantly. It doesn't matter what two vehicles were involved and we should look at it in the same light. Just because someone made a mistake in which a biker got hurt, we want to hang them. I have been the victim of a such incident so I know that in my heart, I wouldn't want the other party in prison forever or even killed. I lost the use of my legs but I am not bitter towards the driver that hit me. Now if he was drunk, then it would be a totally different story. But this guy was driving down a narrow roadway with out a place to run off. It wasn't the best senerio for making a stop. But why would we stop the blame there. I guess we could also hang the guy that was speeding and got pulled over in the first place. After all, he did cause the officer to be in harms way.

so true. i think it's already been done sort of...didn't some guy get charged with manslaughter because a cop pulled out to chase him and got hit or something?
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:52 PM   #44
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If there was not a death in the accident then there would be a lot less fuss. if you jay walk, you get a jay walking ticket. If you jay walk and someone wrecks and dies avoiding you, you get a jay walking ticket. The man messed up. I think he will prolly look at a ticket for illegal lane usage, wreckless driving, or failure to slow or change lanes when passing a cop. I think something along those lines.
i agree with this part, sad but true... but... if you were to shoot a gun up into the air in city limits and get caught, you'd just get a ticket for that... but if that bullet were to come down and kill someone... you'd be charged with manslaughter. you are still responsible for the aftermath of what you did
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:14 PM   #45
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:56 PM   #46
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The driver of the vehicle that hit the deputy didn't not appear to be intoxicated from alcohol or drugs yet he was ordered to give a mandatory blood specimen.

You really can't do that. Mandatory blood draws are mainly if you are under arrest.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:07 PM   #47
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The driver of the vehicle that hit the deputy didn't not appear to be intoxicated from alcohol or drugs yet he was ordered to give a mandatory blood specimen.

You really can't do that. Mandatory blood draws are mainly if you are under arrest.
but that may be required when you kill someone in a car accident? :dontknow:
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:13 PM   #48
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He probably volunteered it. If you just ran over a Police officer because your dumba$$ was on the cell phone, then I doubt you'd be protesting much.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:21 PM   #49
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We were in at the station trying to figure it out. He denied the the voluntary draw, and I would have too. From what I've read the guys SUV hit the rear quarter of the car that was stopped for traffic. And then hit the officer who was knocked 90 ft away.

If it was evident that the driver was not intoxicated at the scene its pointless to do a mandatory blood draw. Mandatory blood draws are only used in intox manslaughter cases, and the person must be taken to a hospital for a doctor to take the blood.

I was just wondering about the legality of this becuase of how I saw PCT 5 handle Mayor White's daughter DWI. I was in the Intox room at Central jail when she was brought in and she was faced, but the case was dismissed due to large errors of the arresting officers at the scene.

Its not good for the prosection to hear the officer say "do you think she's drunk" on the in car video. Defense would shred you at trial.

I'm not trying to knock PCT 5 or its officers, but I've seens things go wrong on scene, especially when it involves another officer and the emotions are high. But making an error like this can negate future chances of prosecution if it was a mistake.

Last edited by andre3k; 10-02-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:26 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andre3k View Post
We were in at the station trying to figure it out. He denied the the voluntary draw, and I would have too. From what I've read the guys SUV hit the rear quarter of the car that was stopped for traffic. And then hit the officer who was knocked 90 ft away.

If it was evident that the driver was not intoxicated at the scene its pointless to do a mandatory blood draw. Mandatory blood draws are only used in intox manslaughter cases, and the person must be taken to a hospital for a doctor to take the blood.

I was just wondering about the legality of this becuase of how I saw PCT 5 handle Mayor White's daughter DWI. I was in the Intox room at Central jail when she was brought in and she was faced, but the case was dismissed due to large errors of the arresting officers at the scene.

Its not good for the prosection to hear the officer say "do you think she's drunk" on the in car video. Defense would shred you at trial.

Since he denied the draw, does that mean *IF* anything was found in his system that it could not be used against him?

I think I'd have to deny it too.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
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He probably volunteered it. If you just ran over a Police officer because your dumba$$ was on the cell phone, then I doubt you'd be protesting much.

he refused to volunteer blood, hence the MANDATORY DRAW.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:34 PM   #52
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he refused to volunteer blood, hence the MANDATORY DRAW.
So In this case, 'mandatory' means they hold your a$$ down and stick you with a needle?
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:46 PM   #53
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Since he denied the draw, does that mean *IF* anything was found in his system that it could not be used against him?

I think I'd have to deny it too.
Typically its goes down like this. If you are DWI and arrested you are asked for a breath sample. You can refuse the breath sample, but your license is suspended and you have to go to an ALR hearing if you want to try to get it back. If you volunteer to give a breath sample and your BAC is less than .08, the DA usually will not take charges and they let you out the front door. Any amount of alcohol in your body causes impairment, FWIW.

You can blow a triple zero (meaning 0.00 BAC), and if you still show impairment we call in a DRE (drug recognition expert) for an eval. These guys are good. They examine all kinds of things and can determine what type of drugs that you have ingested. Based on this eval charges can still be filed against you for DWI even though you have no alcohol in your system, instead you have drugs.

In an intox mansluaughter case, where an officer have reason to believe that the driver is intoxicated usually through field sobriety tests, or HGN (horizontal gaze nystagmus..involuntary jerking of the eyes) and someone has died or is going to die, then a blood specimen is mandatory. You can voluntarily give it. Or the nurses strap you against your will and physically draw blood from you. But usually this isn't as dramatic as it seems, becuase they draw blood anyway and two vials just goes to the police.

When you apply for a drivers license, you give "implied consent" for all of this.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:50 PM   #54
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RIP.

Whats really sad, according to news report last night, is police officers have only written less than 3,000 tickets statewide for this since it was passed in 2003.

Seems some police officer organization thought it was not a good law so they spread the word not to enforce it.

You see it all the time, cops pull someone over on the side of a high-speed road and stand alongside the road when they could pull them off and off-ramp or into a driveway where its much safer.

I have complained to my local PD about officers risking their and others lives by not pulling the person off into a safe area.


Just want to let yall know what all happened if you donít know the facts yet. I was the first officer on the scene after this happened so I know what happened. First of all to the guy that posted the stuff that I quoted, yeah sometimes we have to pull people over on the side of a high-speed road and a lot of the time the smart people will go to the next exit and get off before pulling over. Itís not always the officers that want to be on the side of the freeway, itís the stupid citizens that donít know what to do. I just pulled over a guy yesterday on Westheimer and he stopped in the middle lane!!! I tried to tell him to pull into a parking lot but he didn't speak English so I had no choice but to get out right in the middle of Westheimer and try my best to tell him in Spanish to pull the f**k off the road.
Ok as for this accident, it was not after an over pass where the driver could not see the deputy, it was right after the exit and right before the overpass started. The deputy was not on his bike at the time, he was standing at the window of the car giving the violator a citation so even if he would have been in a police car, it would not have mattered because he was at the window. When I got to the scene there were already two citizens giving the officer CPR. He did look in pretty bad shape and he was not breathing and he had no pulse when I checked. The driver of the SUV was telling me that he just looked down for a second to grab his cell phone and how sorry he was. I ended followed ambulance to the hospital and waited for about 2 hours and when I left they had brought him back to life but they stated he only had about a 5% chance to make it. As everyone knows, he did end up passing away.
THe driver will most likely not be charged with anything but he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.
As far as I know, he did submit to a blood test, he was not forced to do so. But I was not there so I donít know that part for sure.

RIP Deputy Norling
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:52 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andre3k View Post
Typically its goes down like this. If you are DWI and arrested you are asked for a breath sample. You can refuse the breath sample, but your license is suspended and you have to go to an ALR hearing if you want to try to get it back. If you volunteer to give a breath sample and your BAC is less than .08, the DA usually will not take charges and they let you out the front door. Any amount of alcohol in your body causes impairment, FWIW.

You can blow a triple zero (meaning 0.00 BAC), and if you still show impairment we call in a DRE (drug recognition expert) for an eval. These guys are good. They examine all kinds of things and can determine what type of drugs that you have ingested. Based on this eval charges can still be filed against you for DWI even though you have no alcohol in your system, instead you have drugs.

In an intox mansluaughter case, where an officer have reason to believe that the driver is intoxicated usually through field sobriety tests, or HGN (horizontal gaze nystagmus..involuntary jerking of the eyes) and someone has died or is going to die, then a blood specimen is mandatory. You can voluntarily give it. Or the nurses strap you against your will and physically draw blood from you. But usually this isn't as dramatic as it seems, becuase they draw blood anyway and two vials just goes to the police.

When you apply for a drivers license, you give "implied consent" for all of this.
^ Good info.

I've seen a few lives ruined by DWI. Not worth it.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:57 PM   #56
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As far as I know, he did submit to a blood test, he was not forced to do so. But I was not there so I don’t know that part for sure.
Ok, this was different from what news reports said. Not a reliable source to begin with but its all I had to go on. It sucks to make scene like these especially if its someone you work with or know.

No one can tell me anything about working freeways b/c thats all I do. Citizens do stupid things sometimes just because they don't know any better. How many people outside LE knows what officer safety is and proper positioning for a traffic stop. I don't know how many people I've encountered that think its illegal to move a minor accident scene to place other than the middle of the freeway or intersection. I try to judge people based on knowledge, some people know what the deal is and and many do not. Common sense is not very common.

Last edited by andre3k; 10-02-2007 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:59 PM   #57
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i didn't realize there were so many perfect drivers on the board.
Perfect, no. Try to pay attention when behind the wheel of a 2 ton deadly weapon? Absolutely. My cell goes in the console, I'll check the messages when I get to where ever I am headed.

There is no call I can imagine that is worth killing someone because my head and mind were elsewhere.

There have been numerous studies that prove talking on cells is almost as bad as being under the influence.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:05 PM   #58
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Ok, this was different from what news reports said. Not a reliable source to begin with but its all I had to go on. It sucks to make scene like these especially if its someone you work with or know.

No one can tell me anything about working freeways b/c thats all I do. Citizens do stupid things sometimes just because they don't know any better. How many people outside LE knows what officer safety is and proper positioning for a traffic stop. I don't know how many people I've encountered that think its illegal to move a minor accident scene to place other than the middle of the freeway or intersection. I try to judge people based on knowledge, some people know what the deal is and and many do not. Common sense is not very common.

Mean

It did suck to make this scene, I didn't know the guy but he was still a fellow officer. Just kind of hits home if you know what I mean.

Yeah I know what you mean. I will never pull someone over on the freeway if I can help it; just too dangerous for us LE's out there. I donít know how you do it man, just stay safe out there. Your right, most people donít have a clue what do to in a minor accident scene and will just block the whole road for some bumper damage and just sit until we get there.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:06 PM   #59
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RIP Deputy Norling.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:28 PM   #60
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This is a sad story but is an eye opener that when ur cagin it 2 be careful b/c in the blink of an eye what could happen 2 u. So live life to the fullest b/c u never know when its going 2 be over.
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