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Old 06-28-2013, 07:20 PM   #81
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:23 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darranwil View Post
If you have any amount of lean. Yes. If bike is straight up, no. But you cannot take a decent turn with the bike straight up unless you are doing like 5 mph, or under.
My tires show that I have been leaning over more so to the right which would be par for the course. Still have not wore all the noobles off on the left and almost all gone on the right (new bike.. new tires) so I have a pretty good indicator at this point on whether I have been leaning in the corners.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:06 AM   #83
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Rowdy76 View Post
My tires show that I have been leaning over more so to the right which would be par for the course. Still have not wore all the noobles off on the left and almost all gone on the right (new bike.. new tires) so I have a pretty good indicator at this point on whether I have been leaning in the corners.
That is normal. Look at anyone's tires and the chicken strips vary from side to side on the front. Chicken strips being the unworn down part of your tire. Biker BS, don't worry about having them, everyone does. As stated by others most people have more trouble with right hand turns because that is the side the throttle is on and you subconciously feel less secure and stable in a right hand turn. For you, seems the other way around. Those still new sections of tire are also VERY slick and are going to scare the out of you the more you hit them in turns. Don't panic, stay steady on advancing the throttle, and the bike will feel like it's slipping a little, which it is, but you will go through the turn fine. Maybe a few pounds lighter or with less seat covering, but fine. The more you get comfortable laying the bike over the chicken strips will wear off and you'll be that guy scraping pegs in no time. Fact is straight up the front tire has a very small contact patch with the pavement. Leaning in a turn the contact patch triples to more so in size. Hence is actually more stable except you now have a sideways gravitational force on the wheel instead of just a downwards gravitational force.

When in doubt, more throttle.
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Old 06-29-2013, 04:48 AM   #85
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You can see in the attached pic how much larger the contact patch is when you lean over. The more "sport" oriented the tire is, the steeper the sidewall with less siping.

Over half the tire width is on the pavement, and radial tire construction allows the carcass to flex and spread even more.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:26 AM   #86
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Rode for the first time since my original post. WOW.. today was like the best ride on my bike I have had yet. I did not notice I was countersteering but now that I actually made an effort to do it .. the bike felt so much more stable in a corner. And yeah the throttle ... big difference. I could tell .. I had to slow up in a corner because a jackass in a cager slowed way down in a corner. I could feel the bike get upset (not sure if was the front tire or what .. felt like the front .. no brake just rolled off a little) and then once I had put a little distance got back on and could tell the difference. Bike was not out of control but could tell it more rigid (best way to describe it) vs like a limp noodle when I had to roll off with a little lean on it. I could feel it tighten back up when I got on it.

So on the way home with less traffic on the road at night .. I played around a little more. Bike for sure responds quicker when on the throttle vs off the throttle when in a corner.

Was alot more fun to ride today because my confidence level went way up when I realized what I was doing was working. I am lucky I didnt get a ticket cause I was riding way over posted because it felt good. Thank I do not have a bigger bike.

Thanks for the all the input even if I am a pain in the . Still work to do ... but for sure felt more secure on the bike which = fun ride.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:01 AM   #87
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It is amazing when you "click the switch" and it all makes sense.. yep!

Glad you are getting more in the groove.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:19 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy76 View Post
Rode for the first time since my original post. WOW.. today was like the best ride on my bike I have had yet. I did not notice I was countersteering but now that I actually made an effort to do it .. the bike felt so much more stable in a corner. And yeah the throttle ... big difference. I could tell .. I had to slow up in a corner because a jackass in a cager slowed way down in a corner. I could feel the bike get upset (not sure if was the front tire or what .. felt like the front .. no brake just rolled off a little) and then once I had put a little distance got back on and could tell the difference. Bike was not out of control but could tell it more rigid (best way to describe it) vs like a limp noodle when I had to roll off with a little lean on it. I could feel it tighten back up when I got on it.

So on the way home with less traffic on the road at night .. I played around a little more. Bike for sure responds quicker when on the throttle vs off the throttle when in a corner.

Was alot more fun to ride today because my confidence level went way up when I realized what I was doing was working. I am lucky I didnt get a ticket cause I was riding way over posted because it felt good. Thank I do not have a bigger bike.

Thanks for the all the input even if I am a pain in the . Still work to do ... but for sure felt more secure on the bike which = fun ride.

Now it feels like you are riding the bike, not the bike riding you. You'll get there and soon you'll want bigger, usually takes about a year.

Now goto a parking lot and try slow sleep emergency countersteeting or slaloms..
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:02 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darranwil View Post
If you have any amount of lean. Yes. If bike is straight up, no. But you cannot take a decent turn with the bike straight up unless you are doing like 5 mph, or under.
The bike decides how much it needs to lean. All the rider does is steer it in the direction they want the bike to go.

If you want to see how the bike responds to bar input, apply some forward pressure (push) on one of the grips when you're on a straight at highway speeds.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
The bike decides how much it needs to lean. All the rider does is steer it in the direction they want the bike to go.

If you want to see how the bike responds to bar input, apply some forward pressure (push) on one of the grips when you're on a straight at highway speeds.
Yeah I did that last ... Need to go work on emergency moves
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:06 AM   #91
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The other trick is to try and lead with your head...

In other words don't push the bike side to side and not follow it in the lean.

Work on the conscious/sub-conscious act of looking, moving the upper body over into the turn, and then push on the bar... until it all happens in one smooth motion
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darranwil View Post
That is normal. Look at anyone's tires and the chicken strips vary from side to side on the front. Chicken strips being the unworn down part of your tire. Biker BS, don't worry about having them, everyone does.

Get to the track and those chicken strips will disappear....


Seriously though if you only ride on the street and have no chicken strip at all, you are riding pretty dangerously in my book. Don't worry about what others think.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:06 PM   #93
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Seriously though if you only ride on the street and have no chicken strip at all, you are riding pretty dangerously in my book. Don't worry about what others think.

ooops nevermind then!
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
The other trick is to try and lead with your head...

In other words don't push the bike side to side and not follow it in the lean.

Work on the conscious/sub-conscious act of looking, moving the upper body over into the turn, and then push on the bar... until it all happens in one smooth motion
I found it easier to follow with my head to the mirror last night where before it felt awkward but when the bike started to lean on its own by steering I have me something follow if that makes sense. It could have been in one motion .. I just know it felt more natural than before.

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Old 07-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
Get to the track and those chicken strips will disappear....


Seriously though if you only ride on the street and have no chicken strip at all, you are riding pretty dangerously in my book. Don't worry about what others think.
I am not worried .. I was just giving an indication about whether or not I have leaned the bike or was riding straight up in the corners. I am old enough and have the dont give a attitude about having a sizing contest.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:12 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
The bike decides how much it needs to lean. All the rider does is steer it in the direction they want the bike to go.

If you want to see how the bike responds to bar input, apply some forward pressure (push) on one of the grips when you're on a straight at highway speeds.
A bike or uni for that matter, uses gyroscopic force (2 wheels spinning) and will always try to maintain a 90 degree offset to gravity. The bike will always want to be straight up, more so the more throttle it has. If all the rider did is steer, you wouldn't shift your weight around or lean off in high speed turns to offset gyroscopic forces.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:47 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darranwil View Post
A bike or uni for that matter, uses gyroscopic force (2 wheels spinning) and will always try to maintain a 90 degree offset to gravity. The bike will always want to be straight up, more so the more throttle it has. If all the rider did is steer, you wouldn't shift your weight around or lean off in high speed turns to offset gyroscopic forces.
Actually, by countersteering, you change the slip angle of the front wheel, and it wants to fall over the opposite direction. The steeper the rake, the easier it is to overcome the gyroscopic force.
At that point, the rest of the bike starts to lean, and then the front wheel turns into the corner.
It all happens in a blink of an eye, but ultra slow motion cameras and lots of studies have proven it.
You can sit straight up and down, and lean the bike over into a turn and it will work just fine. Up to the point your corner speed and ground clearance equal out.
The reason for leaning and hanging off is to lower your overall center of gravity, and allow you to keep the bike more upright and gain clearance, which equals more corner speed. Plenty of people go plenty fast sitting straight in line with the bike, and never hang off a bit.

The NO BS bike is really a graphic demonstration of the fact that you can lean, body steer and weight the pegs all you want, but until you move the front wheel, it is virtually impossible to change directions more than a very slight amount.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:52 AM   #98
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gotta love a double post
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:18 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darranwil View Post
A bike or uni for that matter, uses gyroscopic force (2 wheels spinning) and will always try to maintain a 90 degree offset to gravity. The bike will always want to be straight up, more so the more throttle it has. If all the rider did is steer, you wouldn't shift your weight around or lean off in high speed turns to offset gyroscopic forces.
The only reason to hang off is to decrease the lean angle, period. Your body doesn't turn the bike, the bars do. Cars don't want to turn either. Let go of the steering wheel in a turn and see what happens. Do you use your body to make a car turn?
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