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Old 04-26-2011, 01:27 AM   #21
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Ahh I see.... I can see where things could get sticky with advice and stuff.... But if somebody is on a ride with me who is a practicing up to date certified EMT or PARAMEDIC I would like to know that there wouldn't be any hesitation for them to aid me if I went down... that would suck...
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davekg View Post
Ahh I see.... I can see where things could get sticky with advice and stuff.... But if somebody is on a ride with me who is a practicing up to date certified EMT or PARAMEDIC I would like to know that there wouldn't be any hesitation for them to aid me if I went down... that would suck...
I really don't think that any of us would not help, but it would be real basic, same stuff you can do, but I can guarentee the dept of helth would be up our to justify it, and I would, but the sticky thing is the problem. get a group together and go to the texas senate and legislature and about it, say that we have all these people who are highly trained but not allowed to do cause of some asshat running illegal calls, we need to make EMT's EMT's no matter where or when
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davekg View Post
Ahh I see.... I can see where things could get sticky with advice and stuff.... But if somebody is on a ride with me who is a practicing up to date certified EMT or PARAMEDIC I would like to know that there wouldn't be any hesitation for them to aid me if I went down... that would suck...
They likely would, but would hope that you are not a and sue.



Quote:
The Texas Good Samaritan Law limits the civil liability of persons administering emergency care in good faith at the scene of an emergency or in a health care facility. The law limits the civil liability of these persons unless their actions are wilfully and wantonly negligent. This protection does not apply to care administered for or in expectation of remuneration, or by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration. Also, the limited civil liability is not available for a person whose negligence was a producing cause of the emergency for which care is being administered.[ 35 ]

Emergency medical service personnel who are not licensed in the healing arts who administer emergency care in good faith are not liable in civil damages for an act performed in administering the care unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent. This limit of liability applies regardless of whether the care is provided for or in expectation of remuneration.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:05 AM   #24
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Umm, I didn't mean to offend you but no way would I ever let someone bleed out, nor did I say move someone for the
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:13 AM   #25
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Umm, I didn't mean to offend you but no way would I ever let someone bleed out, nor did I say move someone for the
Got cut off...

Of it, only if needed!!
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:12 AM   #26
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Alright guys, i see a lot of enthusiasts taking the extra step by learning CPR. Good going. I am in the medical field and realize how lack of oxygen can cause irreversible damage to the brain. The first few minutes of care provided to a fallen could change everything, for better or worse.

I have seen a lot of riders go down and have provided care for them at the time. I have seen some things that the helping riders or the fallen rider do that could cause MORE damage than help. Here are some steps I highly recommend:

1) Pull over to a safe spot...preferably on the inside of the corner or anywhere that will not cause the following riders to fixate on your bike and crash. CALL 911 and give them the location.

2) Access the damage to the rider...is he responding to your questions?

3) If he is then PLEASE ask him to lay still...the first thing the rider or others might try to do is stand up or remove his helmet. NO...do not move. A broken rib could cause internal bleeding or puncture a lung...a broken neck can cause a lot of damage if moved. Ask the rider where he hurts..look for obvious damage...if the rider is impaled by an object..do not attempt to pull it out. Always helps to get details of the pattern of the riders fall from someone that saw it happen.

4) If the rider unconscious check for a pulse ..preferably using the index and middle finger placed on the side the neck.

5) If no pulse then proceed with CPR...

Most important thing is to avoid getting back on your feet before accessing the damage.

THANKS GOOD INFO NEED'S TO BE A STICKY
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:25 AM   #27
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yes JP..i see u r right about the legal aspects...but what i am saying is very basic...We always call 911 first...while they r on their way we want to make sure the fallen is not trying to get up in a hurry...or other riders not standing them up...If it came down to me helping someone to save their life by opening an airway...YES i will...I am NOT worried about the legal aspects..
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP171 View Post
it applies to the layperson, NOT EMS certified persons not to MDs or Nurses either, the good samaritan act also only covers criminal charges not civil. the OP stated he was in the medical profession type of world, he IS NOT covered by the Good samaritan act. when someone dispenses medical advice solicited or unsolicited and the advice is incorrect they can be held accountable,the good samaritan act does not apply, if they (layperson) acts as he believes the situation requires to save the life of someone he is protected from criminal prosocution for the specific acts that he performs. If he gives advice to someone that subsequently dies directly due to the advice he can be held criminally liable for causing the death and practicing medicine without a license
Texas Good Samaritan Act

Article 6701d, Vernon's Civil Statutes ; Chapter 74, Civil Practice and Remedies Code Section 74.001

LIABILITY FOR EMERGENCY CARE

(a) a person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent.

(b) This section does not apply for care administered:

(1) for of in expectation of remuneration;

(2) by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration;

(3) by a person who regularly administers emergency care in a hospital or emergency room; or

(4) by an admitting physician or a treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:23 AM   #29
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Texas Good Samaritan Act

Article 6701d, Vernon's Civil Statutes ; Chapter 74, Civil Practice and Remedies Code Section 74.001
(a) a person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent.
I figured as much since Kentucky has the same, but didn't know about Texas.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Stop giving medical advice or direction here period!!! if you are not certified and certified but NOT in your AO nor "on Duty" don't touch period call 911 give them the location. if you are certified do what you know to do but keep it at the medically necessary and layperson level period. anything else and your patch is gone!
I see how the legal aspects can hamper ones priorities as a human . YES!! first thing we do is call 911 and just hope they get there before we watch our friend die. It took them 20 minutes to get to the location where my friend crashed, not that they could have done anything to save him had they got there sooner.

Yeah!! i would rather be prepared and do what i can do to keep the person alive till professional help arrives.

Not moving the person, stop the bleeding, leaving impaled objects where they are, and ensuring that the person is not deprived of air...are the basics that we ALL should know and do..

The law suits will be handled later. I believe in doing the right thing. You can get sued for standing by and not helping too. Nevermind getting sued what about the guilt u have to live with?
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:42 AM   #31
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I'm not disagreeing that the advice is sound, but that it is given at all, the advice is in violation of several laws and rules, we have had one person get busted by the state for it and I really hate seeing that. the best advice is to go take a class in firstaid/CPR then do what they teach you. advice like the above gets to be what is called practicing medicine without a license. I have been a Paramedic for over 20 years so yea its sound but getting too involved. It will get someone in trouble
Didn't you get let go from San Leon Fire Department for claiming to be a medic but you weren't able to produce proof of your certs?
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:54 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
I figured as much since Kentucky has the same, but didn't know about Texas.
You can find state specific legislation here: http://www.cprinstructor.com/legal.htm
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP171 View Post
it applies to the layperson, NOT EMS certified persons not to MDs or Nurses either, the good samaritan act also only covers criminal charges not civil. the OP stated he was in the medical profession type of world, he IS NOT covered by the Good samaritan act. when someone dispenses medical advice solicited or unsolicited and the advice is incorrect they can be held accountable,the good samaritan act does not apply, if they (layperson) acts as he believes the situation requires to save the life of someone he is protected from criminal prosocution for the specific acts that he performs. If he gives advice to someone that subsequently dies directly due to the advice he can be held criminally liable for causing the death and practicing medicine without a license
Providing legal advice without a license will get you in trouble too...

See below the explanation of the Texas Good Samaritan Law by a legal expert:

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...26&postcount=5
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davekg View Post
Ahh I see.... I can see where things could get sticky with advice and stuff.... But if somebody is on a ride with me who is a practicing up to date certified EMT or PARAMEDIC I would like to know that there wouldn't be any hesitation for them to aid me if I went down... that would suck...
First of all, the assistance that an EMT or paramedic can provide for trauma isn't all that different from what a layperson can legally do, anyway. There are a few execptions, such as intubation and giving fluids for certain kinds of bleeding. People need two things after major trauma...surgery and blood, neither of which anyone can do in the field. Hermann LifeFlight is the only service I know of anywhere near Houston that carries blood.

Of all the advice offered in this thread, JP171's advice is the best. TAKE A FIRST AID OR FIRST RESPONDER CLASS. You will often do more harm than good trying to duplicate what you see on TV. No one will complain if you help and everything turns out perfectly. However, if the person you help dies or ends up with some kind of deficit after you help, even if the death or deficit was not directly caused by your actions, expect a legal battle. People are entirely too sue-happy these days. If you take a class, receive proper training for your skill level, and perform ONLY the interventions allowed by your level of training up to First Responder level interventions, you are protected legally.

For all the people who have posted advice or have shouted, "Thanks for the info," you should really check out the thread I started a few days ago. I have been in contact with an instructor in the Houston area about forming a class for our forum members. It's great that you want to help and try to educate others, but TAKE A CLASS. It will keep you out of trouble and will show you how to prevent making the situation worse. Here's the thread.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=180494
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Will set a google news filter immediately: coat hanger probing.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:23 AM   #35
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I took the CPR and first aid class (HSSE requirement where I work) and the the last thing they told us was not to be afraid of providing help due to the Texas Good Samaritan law.

After what Pinball mentions I would be more hesitant though...
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:36 PM   #36
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and so the modern day "lone rider" was born.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #37
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Well all in all, if I see someone go down I will help. I have helped. I am not a medic and whats right is right. If someone wants to try to get me in trouble for saving a life or trying then so be it. I for one cant stand by and watch something bad happening to anyone. Even if I can only hold there hand and talk to them as they die. I can do that and have.
Seeing somone die is probably the worst thing ever to happen to me. But they didnt need to die alone. I see accidents where people just stand outside and want to watch they think the is cool. I am one of those help or get out of teh way bastards.
Kudos on the advice. dont worry I wont turn you in for trying to help.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:19 PM   #38
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If I see any biker on the side of a road due to an accident, you and the lawsuits, if you need medical attention I can provide within a certain competency, I'm going to try to save a life.

And for all the naysayers, yes, I've taken a first aid / CPR / first responder course...
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:19 PM   #39
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Well all in all, if I see someone go down I will help. I have helped. I am not a medic and whats right is right. If someone wants to try to get me in trouble for saving a life or trying then so be it. I for one cant stand by and watch something bad happening to anyone. Even if I can only hold there hand and talk to them as they die. I can do that and have.
Seeing somone die is probably the worst thing ever to happen to me. But they didnt need to die alone. I see accidents where people just stand outside and want to watch they think the is cool. I am one of those help or get out of teh way bastards.
Kudos on the advice. dont worry I wont turn you in for trying to help.
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If I see any biker on the side of a road due to an accident, you and the lawsuits, if you need medical attention I can provide within a certain competency, I'm going to try to save a life.

And for all the naysayers, yes, I've taken a first aid / CPR / first responder course...
I think most people are missing the point. You can assist anyone you want with up to First Responder level interventions (even if you have not had training) without fear of liability. The Good Samaritan Law protects you. It is just the recommendation of myself and others to take a class so that you can intervene more effectively. A bystander is legally allowed to do a lot of things that EMS would do in a traumatic emergency anyway. The classes let you know what those things are and give you an opportunity to practice them so when things go wrong, you're not trying to remember what you saw that one guy do on TV a month ago.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:38 PM   #40
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lawsuit-crazy world we live in. your liable for everything you do even if the intentions were good.
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