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Old 12-12-2007, 01:05 AM   #21
Mr. Unassailable
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braking 102



10.Can you explain four stage braking in practical terms?

To understand four stage braking, think of a rider coming up to a set of lights. Stage One is the force with which he applies the front brake when he sees the lights turn orange some way ahead, in other words, lightly.

At Stage One, the rider is applying the front brake to the point where the brake is just on and slowing the bike down very, very gently to roll to a stop.

Stage Two is the force the rider would use if he was a bit closer to the lights when they turned orange, and he had to make a normal, smooth stop at the lights. So, Stage Two is the firm pull used to bring the bike to a firm, but quiet stop. The rider applies his front brake to Stage One (friction point) before going on to apply to a steady force at Stage Two.

Stage Three. Our rider has dithered about whether to stop for the orange light before deciding he'd better. By this time, he has to stop quite hard to stop. So he applies the front brake to friction point (Stage One), then onto a firm pull (Stage Two) before applying pressure with a strong pull at Stage Three.

Stage Four. The rider very unwisely decides to run the orange only to find, just before he reaches the lights, that they turn red. In this serious situation the rider needs all the braking he's got. So he applies the front brake to friction point, moves onto the firm pull of Stage Two, then to the strong pull of Stage Three, before giving it all he's got at Stage Four.

11. If you "give it all you've got" on the front brake at Stage Four, won't you get front wheel lockup?

Possibly but by using the staged braking process, by the time the tyre gets to the point of locking up at Stage Four, the weight has transferred forward onto the front wheel and any tendency of the front tyre to lose grip is both easily sensed and controlled, unlike a front wheel skid caused by a tyre locking up when the brake is jammed on hard while weight is moving around on the bike under weight transfer.

With correct use of the Four Stage process, controlling a front wheel skid is simply a matter of keeping the wheel steering straight ahead as you relax pressure on the front brake to allow the wheel to revolve again and regain grip.

12. What will happen if the front wheel locks and I don't relax some pressure?

You'll fall off as the wheel will eventually tuck under and the bike (and you) will fall down.

13. How good can you get at emergency braking?

In emergency stops, expert riders are capable of controlling a front wheel skid by releasing pressure on the front brake just enough to get that wheel turning again without actually letting the brake right off. This requires considerable sensitivity on the brakes and the only way you will gain this sort of sensitivity is to practice.

At the NZMSC higher level Megarider sessions, the way the instructors tell if the pupil has reached a suitable standard is whether they can hear the front tyre chattering as the tyre grips at the point of adhesion during emergency stops.

14. Is a bald tyre a liability when braking?

A treadless tyre will quite adequately handle braking stresses on a perfect road surface. The trouble is that perfect road surfaces are more than rare - they're virtually extinct. Tyre tread acts like a broom, sweeping debris, dirt, gravel and water etc off the road surface in order that the tyre can grip the road.

The tread on a sensibly ridden motorcycle can comfortably handle most foreign matter on a road surface - with the possible exception of oil (especially diesel oil), thick mud, and smooth wet paint. But link a bald tyre with foreign matter on the road surface and throw in braking stresses for good measure, and the crash will resound throughout the neighbourhood.

15. How should I brake on slippery and loose surfaces.

Carefully but not timidly. The secret to good braking on poor surfaces is observation. If you know what's under your wheels you can tailor your braking to the surface.

So, keep an eye on the road surface. If you cross a slippery surface under strong braking the front wheel may lock. This is why riders who brake late and hard for orange or red lights often spill off - into the middle of the intersection. The fall occurs because the rider fails to ease the front brake as the front wheel crosses the white line that crosses the lanes at the edge of the intersection. Then the front wheel breaks loose under braking on the slippery surface, the rider panics and freezes,
and he and his bike head groundwards...

The basic requirements for braking on a loose surface such as gravel are the same as those applying to braking on a sealed surface. The difference is that you must observe the requirements more strictly on gravel.

You must brake in plenty of time, preferably brake while upright and in a straight line (any braking while leaned over in gravel is extremely hazardous), use both brakes very progressively, carefully interpret the noise from the front and rear tyre while braking to detect and counteract any wheel lock-up, know your road surface, and take particular care when braking on gradients, inclines, and heavy cambers.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azylum View Post
youre absolutely right about the weight transfer. but on streetriding, the rear/front combo is a must. try it sometime.
+1

I use my rear brake alot, but then again I like the feeling of the rear breaking loose
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
I was just telling Patrick and Allan today that I'd like to learn to use the rear brake on track to slide/rotate the bike like Larry does on his motard. That looks so damned cool.
check this out
http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...hlight=backing
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:12 AM   #24
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all i have to say is when theres a sign that says 15mph curve slow the f*** down ......
good read clayton
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:14 AM   #25
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One thing I learned a while back on the rear brake is to adjust it so it won't lock up under "normal use". Mine is set so I have to really lift my foot and stomp it to lock it up. With normal foot position I can't twist my foot down enough to reach lock up.

That way you can get in the habit of using it to set the chassis just before the front brake.

Of course when I hammer the front brakes the rear is in the air, so the rear brake has zero effect....
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:15 AM   #26
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well, my first street bike, i didnt wreck, not even close, but my second........
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
One thing I learned a while back on the rear brake is to adjust it so it won't lock up under "normal use". Mine is set so I have to really lift my foot and stomp it to lock it up. With normal foot position I can't twist my foot down enough to reach lock up.

That way you can get in the habit of using it to set the chassis just before the front brake.

Of course when I hammer the front brakes the rear is in the air, so the rear brake has zero effect....


That's the way I have mine as well. I have to actually try to get the rear to lock to actually make it skid at all.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:19 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_LS_Hatch View Post
That's the way I have mine as well. I have to actually try to get the rear to lock to actually make it skid at all.
Also helps if you need to trail brake into the corner; you can concentrate on the turn instead of worrying about locking the rear....
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:26 AM   #29
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Mr. Unassailable - nice braking write up!
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
Mr. Unassailable - nice braking write up!
stole from nameless author... but i thought this kid could use it.


btw, jenni enjoyed the ride in the porsche
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:35 AM   #31
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Somebody was asking me who I'd taken out on track. I was embarrassed that I didn't remember her name. I take it that she's Ms. Unassailable. She's an adrenaline junkie... absolutely no fear on the track and I was driving the ***king wheels off the car. The M3 racecar we were playing with said we we running low 40's.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
Somebody was asking me who I'd taken out on track. I was embarrassed that I didn't remember her name. I take it that she's Ms. Unassailable. She's an adrenaline junkie... absolutely no fear on the track and I was driving the ***king wheels off the car. The M3 racecar we were playing with said we we running low 40's.
she rides with me at 160+ on the freeways in teh volvo and has seen 186 on the back of a bike with me. she goes on the sunday morning (track speed) street rides with me.

she is UnassailableGF on teh forum.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:44 AM   #33
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186 on the back of a bike? That's nuts.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:49 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
186 on the back of a bike? That's nuts.
she trusts me. and i trust me too.


/thread jack.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:27 AM   #35
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my 02 is that u may be thinking that going down is a must and that it will be a major wreck but i think the majority of first time drops will be in your driveway or stopped at a light. Put your foot down in some anti freeze and foot slides out.
like that. don't put the kickstand all the way down, etc
My father rode for many years and never remember him wrecking altho i also don't know if he ever laid a bike over.
myself would be a differant story tho.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:41 AM   #36
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WELL IF YA A G DONT WORRY JUST USE YA KNE AND FORGET ABOUT DROPPING LAYING DOWN OR CRASHING IT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO DONT PAY ATTENTION WATCH GRAVEL AND YOUR GOOD
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:24 AM   #37
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:47 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigComfy View Post
I used to use it on the track as well But not anymore until I get faster. It seems to slow the rest of my inputs down and the engine breaking(esp on a twin) is plenty.

Instructors and fast guys alike have followed me to give me pointers and asked if I was using the rear brake and I said yes. They asked why? my answer: IDK I thought it would increase my stopping power and make the bike more stable. They agreed but said not at the speed I'm running and that instead it was slowing me down since my feet were not position properly etc....

When I need to start using the rear brake I will until then fudge it!

Note: I'm a slow guy but not super super slow just slow.
If you can find what Doug Chandler wrote about the rear brake read it. The short on this is Doug was a flat tracker #1 ama that went road racing #1 ama superbike so it is likely he knows how to use a rear brake better then most. He said it doesn't use it road racing.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:03 AM   #39
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Thanks for that Mr. Unassailable! Good info!
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:08 AM   #40
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just PAY ATTENTION and don't go too fast. Don't try to be a Billy Bad or a Clayton Mann. I've been riding approx. 3 years and have yet *knock on wood* to lay the bike down.

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