Is this safe?...

Leave Hard · 08-12-2018, 08:18 PM

...and if not, are there any legitimate repairs that can be done to make it safe? It's about the size of a bar end

Giraffapus · 08-12-2018, 08:42 PM

use a spare bar end and hammer on it until it plugs the spot, fixed!

RustinR · 08-12-2018, 10:06 PM

Ouch! What happened? That looks nasty. I'm an engineer by trade and do assessments of steel damage on occasion (mostly on cranes). If that were a crane boom, I'd say 'No way'. It's a bit hard to tell the extent of the damage, but it does look like there's some cracking just above the impact point. It also looks like some possible stress cracking in the weld just about 7 o'clock from the impact spot, but again, hard to tell from a picture. Riding to work, probably fine, just keep an eye on it. Racing, cross-country trip, something like that, I'd avoid, especially if that is in fact a crack in the weld joining the two frame sections together. As for repairs, being close to the original weld like that complicates things a bit, as you'd have to re-weld over the heat-affected zone...typically a no-no as it's an almost guaranteed site for a future stress crack. There are certainly plenty of welders in town who can fix that, the question is more if they should...

pbfoot · 08-13-2018, 07:19 AM

Yeah. I agree with Rustin. I would be more concerned with other damage to the bike as well. The whole bike needs to be taken down to the frame and checked for cracks, especially at the steering head and the triple tree. As long as the repair is done correctly, i.e at a minimum dye checking the frame after the repair, you should be ok. No stunting for this bike .

Leave Hard · 08-13-2018, 07:55 AM

Added a couple more close shots. There is definitely a crack above the hole but no crack that I can see on the weld. Thanks for the info guys. Not what I wanted to hear but I'm glad to know.

Let the part out begin

bumblebee · 08-13-2018, 09:01 AM

I'm no engineer but my thought is, could the damaged area be cut out and a plug made from similar material welded in place? Maybe material cut from a wrecked frame...
That should reduce the likelihood of future cracking and restore nearly all the strength.

As mentioned you'd want to stay as far as possible from the original weld but I think it could be repaired to the point of being 95% a LOT cheaper than replacing the frame.

On the other hand if there is full coverage insurance involved, maybe totaling it out and buying a new bike might be the best way to go.

sbfuller · 08-13-2018, 09:53 AM

I believe that frame is cast aluminum. From talking to some pretty knowledgeable aluminum welders at NASA... it wont really weld very well with the usual set-up because cast aluminum has a higher level of magnesium or something like that. If you still plan to ride it, I'd use a paint pen or marker to mark the ends of the cracks to see if they get worse over time. Hard cornering where the frame could be flexing should probably be avoided but just a fairly easy paced straight commute should be fine.

albertinhouston · 08-13-2018, 10:35 AM

if you like to pop wheelies... no bueno.
if you cruise around easy youll be fine.

I'd just do a frame swap for peace of mind.

bumblebee · 08-13-2018, 10:52 AM

Yeah... cast frame = no welding

It's possible to weld cast aluminum but it isn't for the average welder and on a frame might not be good.

At the same time, that frame is overbuilt and I think unlikely to fail in a sudden catastrophic break. If the cracks don't migrate and you keep an eye on it, I bet it will be ok.
My thought is to ride it for a month or 2. If everything seems solid, then I would smooth out the radius of the hole and cut the craks out completely. Any sharp discontinuities are stress rises and possible starts of problems. Polish all that stuff out and since nothing moved before you should be ok.

Leave Hard · 08-13-2018, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertinhouston

if you like to pop wheelies... no bueno.
if you cruise around easy youll be fine.

I'd just do a frame swap for peace of mind.

I think I'm leaning this way.

trunxgp1224 · 08-13-2018, 02:12 PM

You can buy the frame from a wreck, part out, or a blank from from the manufacturer.

ducdodgers · 08-16-2018, 09:25 PM

As far as welding pieces of the same material together on the frame.. Uuhhhh... I see lots of welds already on the frame to put it together.. So not sure why it would be any more difficult to weld in another piece? But then again.. Im a very amateur welder who would not even attempt such a thing so...

Track_Graphics · 08-17-2018, 07:53 AM

Bondo will fix it right up. You'll never even know it's still there. Of course--> You'll need to "buff it out".

Jredford · 08-17-2018, 07:56 AM

Ummm - no.

TomballD · 08-17-2018, 08:26 AM

I had a small crack on a cast aluminum ZX6R frame TIG welded and it cracked in the same spot almost immediately. That frame is toast.

How did it happen.

dudewhrsmybike · 08-17-2018, 10:44 AM

Well, it's a GSXR so.....best bet is to upgrade to a Ninja and call it a day.

Jk, everyone so far has given good advice and I have nothing else to add.

GL, and it was nice meeting you on Sunday.

Perhaps your next bike will have traction control? Best not to purposely test her limits even if it's low speed, you experienced how quick it can get out of hand

Leave Hard · 08-17-2018, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustinR

Ouch! What happened?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomballD

How did it happen.

Clowning around and being a dumb basically. I have no real further explanation. Not sure what I expected from WOT in the rain in first gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudewhrsmybike

Well, it's a GSXR so.....best bet is to upgrade to a Ninja and call it a day.

Jk, everyone so far has given good advice and I have nothing else to add.

GL, and it was nice meeting you on Sunday.

Perhaps your next bike will have traction control? Best not to purposely test her limits even if it's low speed, you experienced how quick it can get out of hand

The next bike might just be another shitbox gixxxxxxer. I would feel too bad messing up a nice bike with those fancy electronics :P

dudewhrsmybike · 08-17-2018, 11:15 AM

I just picked up on the irony in your user name and the spill on Sunday's ride

Leave Hard · 08-17-2018, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudewhrsmybike

I just picked up on the irony in your user name and the spill on Sunday's ride

It's way easier on four wheels

Solracer · 08-17-2018, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leave Hard

Clowning around and being a dumb basically. I have no real further explanation. Not sure what I expected from WOT in the rain in first gear

The next bike might just be another shitbox gixxxxxxer. I would feel too bad messing up a nice bike with those fancy electronics :P

Yeah, but they keep the rest of us from doing what you did.

08-12-2018, 08:18 PM	#1
Leave Hard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Cypress Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 182 Experience: 9-12 months Trackdays: 2 Bike(s): 08 GSX-R600	Is this safe?... ...and if not, are there any legitimate repairs that can be done to make it safe? It's about the size of a bar end Attached Thumbnails

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08-12-2018, 10:06 PM	#3
RustinR 250 rolling track chicane Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Westchase Area, Houston, TX Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 148 Experience: 10+ years Trackdays: 8 Bike(s): 2007 Buell XB9SX 1972 Kawasaki H2 Cafe Racer	Ouch! What happened? That looks nasty. I'm an engineer by trade and do assessments of steel damage on occasion (mostly on cranes). If that were a crane boom, I'd say 'No way'. It's a bit hard to tell the extent of the damage, but it does look like there's some cracking just above the impact point. It also looks like some possible stress cracking in the weld just about 7 o'clock from the impact spot, but again, hard to tell from a picture. Riding to work, probably fine, just keep an eye on it. Racing, cross-country trip, something like that, I'd avoid, especially if that is in fact a crack in the weld joining the two frame sections together. As for repairs, being close to the original weld like that complicates things a bit, as you'd have to re-weld over the heat-affected zone...typically a no-no as it's an almost guaranteed site for a future stress crack. There are certainly plenty of welders in town who can fix that, the question is more if they should...
	__________________ This thing goes how fast?!?!?!

08-13-2018, 07:19 AM	#4
pbfoot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Webster Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 979 Experience: 10+ years Bike(s): 2006 Kawasaki ZG1000	Yeah. I agree with Rustin. I would be more concerned with other damage to the bike as well. The whole bike needs to be taken down to the frame and checked for cracks, especially at the steering head and the triple tree. As long as the repair is done correctly, i.e at a minimum dye checking the frame after the repair, you should be ok. No stunting for this bike .
	__________________ If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over?

08-13-2018, 09:01 AM	#6
bumblebee Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pearland Feedback Rating: (3) Posts: 13,848 Bike(s): '74 Suzuki GT380 '82 XS650 StreetTracker '17 Triumph Thruxton R '83 Yamaha Seca 900	I'm no engineer but my thought is, could the damaged area be cut out and a plug made from similar material welded in place? Maybe material cut from a wrecked frame... That should reduce the likelihood of future cracking and restore nearly all the strength. As mentioned you'd want to stay as far as possible from the original weld but I think it could be repaired to the point of being 95% a LOT cheaper than replacing the frame. On the other hand if there is full coverage insurance involved, maybe totaling it out and buying a new bike might be the best way to go.
	__________________ Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester When seconds count... the police are only minutes away. Grow up and be a productive member of society already. Bevo- "I lack skillz"

08-12-2018, 08:42 PM	#2
Giraffapus AKA 675R Join Date: May 2016 Location: SW Houston Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 167 Trackdays: 2 Bike(s): Aprilia Tuono RR 2018 Triumph Street Triple R 2015 (Sold) Yamaha FZ6R 2015 (Sold fast) Suzuki Katana 750 1990 (Sold) Honda Twinstar 200 1980 (Sold)	use a spare bar end and hammer on it until it plugs the spot, fixed!

08-13-2018, 07:55 AM	#5
Leave Hard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Cypress Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 182 Experience: 9-12 months Trackdays: 2 Bike(s): 08 GSX-R600	Added a couple more close shots. There is definitely a crack above the hole but no crack that I can see on the weld. Thanks for the info guys. Not what I wanted to hear but I'm glad to know. Let the part out begin

08-13-2018, 10:35 AM	#8
albertinhouston Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Feedback Rating: (2) Posts: 1,533	if you like to pop wheelies... no bueno. if you cruise around easy youll be fine. I'd just do a frame swap for peace of mind.

08-13-2018, 10:52 AM	#9
bumblebee Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pearland Feedback Rating: (3) Posts: 13,848 Bike(s): '74 Suzuki GT380 '82 XS650 StreetTracker '17 Triumph Thruxton R '83 Yamaha Seca 900	Yeah... cast frame = no welding It's possible to weld cast aluminum but it isn't for the average welder and on a frame might not be good. At the same time, that frame is overbuilt and I think unlikely to fail in a sudden catastrophic break. If the cracks don't migrate and you keep an eye on it, I bet it will be ok. My thought is to ride it for a month or 2. If everything seems solid, then I would smooth out the radius of the hole and cut the craks out completely. Any sharp discontinuities are stress rises and possible starts of problems. Polish all that stuff out and since nothing moved before you should be ok.
	__________________ Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester When seconds count... the police are only minutes away. Grow up and be a productive member of society already. Bevo- "I lack skillz"

08-13-2018, 02:12 PM	#11
trunxgp1224 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South SW Side Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 2,849	You can buy the frame from a wreck, part out, or a blank from from the manufacturer.

08-16-2018, 09:25 PM	#12
ducdodgers more torque please Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: magnolia Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 573 Experience: 10+ years Trackdays: 10+ Bike(s): 1098 ducati 2008 CBR 1000 RR 2004 1999 yamaha R1 $old 1989 honda huricane $old	As far as welding pieces of the same material together on the frame.. Uuhhhh... I see lots of welds already on the frame to put it together.. So not sure why it would be any more difficult to weld in another piece? But then again.. Im a very amateur welder who would not even attempt such a thing so...

08-17-2018, 07:53 AM	#13
Track_Graphics Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 1,708 Experience: 10+ years	Bondo will fix it right up. You'll never even know it's still there. Of course--> You'll need to "buff it out".
	__________________ Coolest Paint Jobs Ever

08-17-2018, 07:56 AM	#14
Jredford Rotsevnieht Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Houston Feedback Rating: (0) Posts: 2,139 Experience: 1-3 months Trackdays: 1 Bike(s): 2016 KTM 1290 SA Ninja 300 Racer CRMA Lic #622	Ummm - no.
	__________________ "Racing is life... everything before and after is just waiting." Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in 'Le Mans'

08-17-2018, 08:26 AM	#15
TomballD Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tomball Feedback Rating: (5) Posts: 9,461 Experience: 10+ years Bike(s): DR350 XR50 TDub-200 XR100-Tarded 1981 XR80	I had a small crack on a cast aluminum ZX6R frame TIG welded and it cracked in the same spot almost immediately. That frame is toast. How did it happen.
	__________________ Danny

08-17-2018, 10:44 AM	#16
dudewhrsmybike BORC Originator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spring Branch Feedback Rating: (3) Posts: 12,705 Experience: 8 years Trackdays: 10+ Bike(s): 2016 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS 2017 Kawasaki Z125 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS (stolen)	Well, it's a GSXR so.....best bet is to upgrade to a Ninja and call it a day. Jk, everyone so far has given good advice and I have nothing else to add. GL, and it was nice meeting you on Sunday. Perhaps your next bike will have traction control? Best not to purposely test her limits even if it's low speed, you experienced how quick it can get out of hand
	__________________

08-17-2018, 11:15 AM	#18
dudewhrsmybike BORC Originator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spring Branch Feedback Rating: (3) Posts: 12,705 Experience: 8 years Trackdays: 10+ Bike(s): 2016 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS 2017 Kawasaki Z125 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS (stolen)	I just picked up on the irony in your user name and the spill on Sunday's ride
	__________________