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View Poll Results: How would you characterize those in the Confederated States during the Civil War?
Heroes 9 34.62%
Traitors 12 46.15%
No response 5 19.23%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-16-2008, 04:15 PM   #1
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Were those in the Confederated States traitors or hero's?

We have been having discussions all day regarding the dichotomies between heroism and treason so I figured I'd pose this question?

Were those in the Confederated States, during the Civil War, heroes or traitors?
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #2
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They were fighting for what they believed in, even though i may not agree with it, if you fight for what you truly believe in, then your a hero
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:22 PM   #3
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So by your very same logic, Osama Bin Laden and other associated terrorists are heroes because they fight for what they believe in?

*There is no question that they believe in it because anyone willing to blow themselves up for a cause indeed is very vested in said cause...
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:25 PM   #4
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They were fighting for their interpretation of the Constitution namely State's rights. Therefore I would call them heros.

I think I agree would that the states should have more power than they already do. It helps to keep the Feds in check.
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
They were fighting for their interpretation of the Constitution namely State's rights. Therefore I would call them heros.

I think I agree would that the states should have more power than they already do. It helps to keep the Feds in check.
And I say they were traitors because while they sought Constitutionally apportioned rights granted States, they minimized and even omitted certain other parts of the Constitution. They essentially only pointed to the Constitution with regard to items that suited their interests while they ignored various others which may have hindered their interests such as the 1st, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
So by your very same logic, Osama Bin Laden and other associated terrorists are heroes because they fight for what they believe in?

*There is no question that they believe in it because anyone willing to blow themselves up for a cause indeed is very vested in said cause...
if you fight for what you believe in, your a hero,

now i may not consider you a hero, i may consider you a ***** for blowing yourself up with a homemade bomb or with an airplane.

if your going to FIGHT(keyword) then fight, blowing yourself up in the name of ali kazaam, is not taken as you fighting
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:36 PM   #7
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cont'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
And I say they were traitors because while they sought Constitutionally apportioned rights granted States, they minimized and even omitted certain other parts of the Constitution. They essentially only pointed to the Constitution with regard to items that suited their interests while they ignored various others which may have hindered their interests such as the 1st, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments
Not to mention this fundamental excerpt taken from the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpin2Fold View Post
if you fight for what you believe in, your a hero,

now i may not consider you a hero, i may consider you a ***** for blowing yourself up with a homemade bomb or with an airplane.

if your going to FIGHT(keyword) then fight, blowing yourself up in the name of ali kazaam, is not taken as you fighting
The Taliban have taken over several forts in Waziristan by conventional means. So how about the one's that actually do fight with conventional arms, are they heroes?
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
The Taliban have taken over several forts in Waziristan by conventional means. So how about the one's that actually do fight with conventional arms, are they heroes?
again, re-read my post, i may not consider you a hero, i may think your wrong every which way from Sunday, but if you are fight for what you truly believe in, good for you, im sure someone out there thinks your a hero
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
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again, re-read my post, i may not consider you a hero, i may think your wrong every which way from Sunday, but if you are fight for what you truly believe in, good for you, im sure someone out there thinks your a hero


Just thoroughly pointing out the relativity of heroism. You help in facilitating that effort...
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:56 PM   #11
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perspective makes heros.
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:57 PM   #12
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I have to say that the confederate states were traitoristic in that they were being insurectionist in the activities that they were carrying out against other states or in other words they were seditioninsts they began raids into states that were wholly considered northern proior to US Military action against them and refused to halt illegal combat against the neighboring states
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
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perspective makes heros.
and history is always written by the victor!
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
And I say they were traitors because while they sought Constitutionally apportioned rights granted States, they minimized and even omitted certain other parts of the Constitution. They essentially only pointed to the Constitution with regard to items that suited their interests while they ignored various others which may have hindered their interests such as the 1st, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments
Bottom line is they didn't agree with the Gov and felt that they weren't being represented equally. So they decided to seperate from the Union.

Texas was Mexico territory in the early 1800's. The Tejanos decided to seperate from Mexico and we called them heros, not traitors. Remember the Alamo, Goliad, San Jacinto? Just so happens that the Texans won so it turned out differently. Had the South won the 'Civil War' they might've formed their own country and we might be recognizing them as heros today.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #15
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traitorous, like cajun said, they ommited parts of the contitution to fit their agendas.....they didn't believe in all men beign equal, fukk that
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Bottom line is they didn't agree with the Gov and felt that they weren't being represented equally. So they decided to seperate from the Union.

Texas was Mexico territory in the early 1800's. The Tejanos decided to seperate from Mexico and we called them heros, not traitors. Remember the Alamo, Goliad, San Jacinto? Just so happens that the Texans won so it turned out differently. Had the South won the 'Civil War' they might've formed their own country and we might be recognizing them as heros today.
I'm not at all denying the relativity of heroism, in fact, I am in full agreement that the practice of characterization is relative to whom you are speaking. What I AM saying though is that, as a proud American citizen- the Confederacy amounted to traitors as a whole for conducting war against MY country and not going about their aversions through diplomatic means. They were traitors, plain and simple. To believe they weren't (traitors) amounts to acquiescence of their ideals in my humble opinion. They were an entity that opposed this nation and its founding principles by way of arms...
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I'm not at all denying the relativity of heroism, in fact, I am in full agreement that the practice of characterization is relative to whom you are speaking. What I AM saying though is that, as a proud American citizen- the Confederacy amounted to traitors as a whole for conducting war against MY country and not going about their aversions through diplomatic means. They were traitors, plain and simple. To believe they weren't (traitors) amounts to acquiescence of their ideals in my humble opinion. They were an entity that opposed this nation and its founding principles by way of arms...
Yes, they were opposed to to their current government. But, the south didn't conduct war. They said "we're outta here, Pilgrims" then the North said "the you are, we're coming to get you and you'll do what we say." Then the south said "bring it on". Same as the Tejanos.

"Your Country"? I wouldn't have felt too patriotic about a government that forced it's citizens into the armies. They went door to door and um. ... "recruited" soldiers. You either joined or you were shot on site.

So, in essence I agree with a previous poster. The heros were fighting for what they believed in. Everyone else was along for the ride.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Yes, they were opposed to to their current government. But, the south didn't conduct war. They said "we're outta here, Pilgrims" then the North said "the you are, we're coming to get you and you'll do what we say." Then the south said "bring it on". Same as the Tejanos.

"Your Country"? I wouldn't have felt too patriotic about a government that forced it's citizens into the armies. They went door to door and um. ... "recruited" soldiers. You either joined or you were shot on site.

So, in essence I agree with a previous poster. The heros were fighting for what they believed in. Everyone else was along for the ride.
I feel much more comfortabe in feeling patriotic about my country, the United States than I do about the Confederacy. You act as if the Confederated States were far less vicious If anything, they were even more violent offenders against humanity.

Also, you confuse the thing that sparked the war- ever heard of Ft. Sumter? Confederate troops attacked this installation. this lead to Lincoln's response.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
And I say they were traitors because while they sought Constitutionally apportioned rights granted States, they minimized and even omitted certain other parts of the Constitution. They essentially only pointed to the Constitution with regard to items that suited their interests while they ignored various others which may have hindered their interests such as the 1st, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments
Whoah!!! Fact check: Half those amendments were post civil war!
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:18 PM   #20
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Whoah!!! Fact check: Half those amendments were post civil war!
I'm aware of this but those Amendments [the one's mentioned] were only explicit illustrations of the implicit maxims given us in the Constitutional text (pre-civil war)- they, the Confederacy ignored these maxims, thus, the passage of these amendments.

Thank you for your effort of clarification however
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