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Old 05-21-2018, 09:16 AM   #1
Drama
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MSRH Line Issue/Question

I'll preface this by saying I am new to MSRH but I have been racing for the past 3 years in MN. I'm hoping some of you guys that are more familiar with the track can help me out with an issue I had at my last outing.

I attended both recent Ridesmart days, 5/12 and 5/13 and have had some trouble accelerating out of the last turn onto the front straight. I noticed by the second half of the second day it was getting harder and harder to accelerate off that last corner, though my pace had increased. I was pretty hesitant on getting on the throttle. I was getting a lot of headshake and generally getting pitched off my seat a little.

Looking at my data from the weekend I was regularly bottoming the shock there, followed by topping out both the shock and the forks and then bottoming the shock again until the suspension finally started to settle. I didn't really feel like I was hitting any major bumps, atleast not compared to the rest of the track. I also noticed that my line did change in that section when I was running my fastest laps. On my fast laps I was generally throwing away T2 (I'd call it T16...) so that I could square off T1 (T17 by my book) and get on the throttle early.

Is there some divot or bump in the track I'm not seeing? Is my line through that section just stupid because of that?
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:58 AM   #2
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This last turn is a rough ride for sure. This area has been rebuilt from the original design. This track, like many in Texas, is bumpy as and often these bumps and dips are not easily noticed. We have our suspensions worked to perform better on the local tracks and you may need some adjustments. That said. you will have to work on altering your line through the corner to get a better drive. I would suggest youtube and see if you can find some footage from faster riders and see how their line compares to yours. I guess we are just used to the bike really moving around in that corner. My SV650 would dance all the way through there and I would just hang on for the ride. Set up for the exit of this corner is very important. I find that I will finish a little late on a big bike to help keep the bike settled a little better. What suspension are you running on your R1?
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ek View Post
This last turn is a rough ride for sure. This area has been rebuilt from the original design. This track, like many in Texas, is bumpy as and often these bumps and dips are not easily noticed. We have our suspensions worked to perform better on the local tracks and you may need some adjustments. That said. you will have to work on altering your line through the corner to get a better drive. I would suggest youtube and see if you can find some footage from faster riders and see how their line compares to yours. I guess we are just used to the bike really moving around in that corner. My SV650 would dance all the way through there and I would just hang on for the ride. Set up for the exit of this corner is very important. I find that I will finish a little late on a big bike to help keep the bike settled a little better. What suspension are you running on your R1?
I've watched several videos out there. I noticed that most guys don't seem to be throwing away T16 to square off T17 for better drive like I was trying to do. Based on the layout I would think that would be a given best line for a literbike but perhaps not if that line puts you right into the worst of the bumps. I did notice in my logs that on laps I wasn't bottoming the suspension, I was taking a different line.

I am running a KTech DDS Pro rear shock with the preloaded compression piston and a pretty aggressive compression stack. In the forks I am running the KTech DDS cartridges. The main reason I added suspension logging to my program this year is so that I can intelligently tune the suspension. So far I am realizing I need more compression damping. I think the bumps and ripples all over the track excite the suspension contributing to things like shock pumping. Next time out i'll be dialing in more compression damping but I'm only 8 clicks out as is so I may send it for a revalve for more compression damping if I have to keep winding it in.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drama View Post
I've watched several videos out there. I noticed that most guys don't seem to be throwing away T16 to square off T17 for better drive like I was trying to do. Based on the layout I would think that would be a given best line for a literbike but perhaps not if that line puts you right into the worst of the bumps. I did notice in my logs that on laps I wasn't bottoming the suspension, I was taking a different line.

I am running a KTech DDS Pro rear shock with the preloaded compression piston and a pretty aggressive compression stack. In the forks I am running the KTech DDS cartridges. The main reason I added suspension logging to my program this year is so that I can intelligently tune the suspension. So far I am realizing I need more compression damping. I think the bumps and ripples all over the track excite the suspension contributing to things like shock pumping. Next time out i'll be dialing in more compression damping but I'm only 8 clicks out as is so I may send it for a revalve for more compression damping if I have to keep winding it in.
What lap times were you running? More compression sounds like the next logical step to adjust for the track conditions. Jim Cambora is the guy most CMRA turn to when setting up suspension.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:13 PM   #5
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What lap times were you running? More compression sounds like the next logical step to adjust for the track conditions. Jim Cambora is the guy most CMRA turn to when setting up suspension.
So far I've gotten down to a 38.1. I'm hoping to start racing CMRA at the coming event so that better drop some more.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #6
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So far I've gotten down to a 38.1. I'm hoping to start racing CMRA at the coming event so that better drop some more.
That's moving at a good clip. Have you joined the CMRA board yet? You can reach out there and get some feedback from some of the experts. A lot of the guys have picked up R1's now. You can also get in co tact with Cambora at Race works. He will have tuning days down here with clients sometimes. Very helpful to be able to tune at the track with professional assistance.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:03 AM   #7
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If your running 38's you ned to have Jimmy Cambora from Race Werx set up your suspension. He's the best. If you want to ride on a member day and pretty much have the track with maybe 4-8 riders 30 min sessions let me know. I can get you in. If your running 38's you are seasoned enough for me to vouch for you. Just PM me sometime and we will get you set up.

Last edited by BryanE; 05-22-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 05-23-2018, 12:35 AM   #8
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Do you have any way to share a screen image of your data. I'm just curious not going to have anything to offer suggestion wise.

As for your description it gives me a mental image of a rear end pumping while leaned over trying to get drive which makes me think of a lack of grip for the swing arm drive angle.

I can imaging that the swing arm angle which normally works to raise the rear of the bike when upright can also work to kick the rear out when leaned over and trying to get drive while leaned over and using up avaible grip with the suspension already loaded.

Not sure about which move to work with dampening, if I was guessing might say that I'd try to slow down the outward kick of the swing arm breaking traction, versus trying to slow down the compresion of the swing arm that I would think would already be compressed from the cornreirng forces prior to the onset of this behavior.

Agreed with comments above. That kind of pace is flying. What track do / did you use to previously ride on ? Welcome to houston
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Last edited by kenup283; 05-23-2018 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:30 PM   #9
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Do you have any way to share a screen image of your data. I'm just curious not going to have anything to offer suggestion wise.

As for your description it gives me a mental image of a rear end pumping while leaned over trying to get drive which makes me think of a lack of grip for the swing arm drive angle.

I can imaging that the swing arm angle which normally works to raise the rear of the bike when upright can also work to kick the rear out when leaned over and trying to get drive while leaned over and using up avaible grip with the suspension already loaded.

Not sure about which move to work with dampening, if I was guessing might say that I'd try to slow down the outward kick of the swing arm breaking traction, versus trying to slow down the compresion of the swing arm that I would think would already be compressed from the cornreirng forces prior to the onset of this behavior.

Agreed with comments above. That kind of pace is flying. What track do / did you use to previously ride on ? Welcome to houston
After speaking with some guys that know the layout of the track really well I am pretty confident I am hitting a bump. The suspension first bottoms out and then rebounds, so it's not kicking out on the throttle first.

Here's a link to a short clip of a program I made in order to help analyze the data. The bike kinematics are absolutely realistic as I incorporated my suspension analysis code into my data analysis program:

Previously I lived in North Dakota and raced with the CRA at Brainerd International Raceway. They say Brainerd has the fastest turn in North America. The front straight is about .9 miles long. Turn 1 is generally wide open on a 600 and you roll off on a 1000. I generally saw mid 180mph, the lap record holder managed 197mph on a superbike built S1000rr. This is one of my favorite race videos:
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Old 05-29-2018, 03:36 AM   #10
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Thanks for posting that, cool vids. Neat how the data is shown visually, also that is one fast corner, I forgot about that track. Know it from drag racing but overlooked the roadcourse. I think you'll enjoy around here we've got several good tracks in relative closeness. Could even have more if some owners were more instrested.
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