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Old 03-02-2018, 10:10 AM   #61
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Quote:
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No one had a warrant? Pretty sure it's up to local authorities to arrest offenders.

What if all the folks in that building had been Muslim immigrants operating like Koresh? Would that have made any difference to you?
no. Rights of citizens have nothing to do with religion or race...
how does one go about getting a warrant? The feds were the ones with the info, if they had cared about raping of young girls they would have shared that info with the locals who could have done something about that...but they kept that info (if it was real) to themselves until they decided they needed it for public support.
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:27 AM   #62
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:12 AM   #63
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Think some dudes that didn't belong to the cult got shot before that happened.
If you are referring to the ATF that served the warrants, the evidence does not support that the BDís shot first. Further, the ATF served the warrant with a battalion of armed agents including heliís. Ridiculous.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:15 AM   #64
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Quote:
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If you are referring to the ATF that served the warrants, the evidence does not support that the BDís shot first. Further, the ATF served the warrant with a battalion of armed agents including heliís. Ridiculous.
We're the gubment, and you're gonna comply cause we told you to boy!
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:19 AM   #65
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agreed. I watched the final episode last night and it make me hate our govt. Farking idiots. They knew that tear gas can be flamable (because it killed so many others in the past when they tried it. And they didn't have fire trucks there just in case? they are murderers and should be prosecuted and hanged for what they did.

25 children dead when they could have arrested him when he left the compound way before the standoff.
Bill - the scientific evidence does not support that the CS was flammable. What they did was horrendous, but the CS itself didnít cause the rampant fire.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:23 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Bill - the scientific evidence does not support that the CS was flammable. What they did was horrendous, but the CS itself didnít cause the rampant fire.
the MSDS sheets on the gas they used says it is, in confined spaces...the gas is cleared for use on crowds in the open
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:25 AM   #67
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:28 AM   #68
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:35 AM   #69
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No need to focus on just ONE atrocity theATF has committed. There are many, many of them.
The NRA had a story about a couple, sleeping in their apartment. ATF kicked in their door and stormed in, guns drawn in full combat gear, including masks.
Man wakes up, reaches for pistol in head board and ATF opens fire and kills him. Another agent jerked pregnant wife out of bed and slammed her against the wall so hard she had a miscarriage.
In the mean time an agent had cornered their cat behind a door and stomped it to death. A cat.


They were at the wrong place.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:47 AM   #70
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:48 AM   #71
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:50 AM   #72
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Quote:
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Did the AFT get the death penalty for murdering a man and a baby?
At the time of the article ask that hasn't been decided. Never saw a follow up.
But they should have
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:56 AM   #73
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:44 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerbill View Post
agreed. I watched the final episode last night and it make me hate our govt. Farking idiots. They knew that tear gas can be flamable (because it killed so many others in the past when they tried it. And they didn't have fire trucks there just in case? they are murderers and should be prosecuted and hanged for what they did.

25 children dead when they could have arrested him when he left the compound way before the standoff.
>>> after the ashes cooled certain branch davidians sued the USgov claiming the waco deaths were the result of murderous/grossly neg conduct by the ATF et al ... they lost their case ... a few years later the US ATTY that represented the government committed suicide > he was guilty of much more than any Bdavidian ... there will be more wacos and <> more government lawyers will be creating more and more theories to justify paramilitary force on us citizens
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:35 PM   #75
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the MSDS sheets on the gas they used says it is, in confined spaces...the gas is cleared for use on crowds in the open
Thatís not the case. CS gas is widely accepted as non flammible. The projectiles used to fire tear gas canisters can be, of course, flammible.

The majority of the CS gas was not fired in cannisters, it was pumped into the building using a boom attached to a tank.

As much as I would like to blame the CS gas for the fire, along with the people who authorized the use, i believe the CS gas itself was not the culprit.

Now, making the decision to pump an enclosed building full of CS gas is reprehensible. Its ludicrous to believe people deep inside the building would not suffer ill effects from that action. Children.... just wtf.

Whatís most disturbing is that this was a planned, reviewed and approved approach. Just who in the would authorize the FBI/ATF to take this action.

It was ego. Key players at the executive rank of rhe fbi and atf decided they were going to force BDís and Koresh to submit in order to make a point.

Govít officials should have been prosecuted for that action.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:42 PM   #76
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We're the gubment, and you're gonna comply cause we told you to boy!
Imagine looking out your window and your place is being surrounded by armed men and helos. Would you really just stick up your hands and walk out? Especially if you have weapons on the ready.

Outrageously stupid from a tactical perspective considering they could gave easily picked up koresh and other key members on the street.

If I remember correctly, they didnít even have running water. The govít simply needed to wait them out. Quietly. No drama. No massive display of military might. tanks at a church compound. Are you serious?
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:48 PM   #77
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....

FIRE HAZARDS
* o-Chlorobenzylidene Malononitrile may burn, but does not readily ignite.
* Use dry chemical, CO2, water or alcohol resistant foam extinguishers.
* POISONOUS GASES ARE PRODUCED IN FIRE, including Chlorine, Cyanide and Nitrogen Oxides.
* CONTAINERS MAY EXPLODE IN FIRE.
* Use water spray to keep fire-exposed containers cool.
* If employees are expected to fight fires, they must be trained
and equipped as stated in OSHA 1910.156.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:53 PM   #78
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I just read the msds sheet on what I was told they used...
it is a bit confusing listing it as a noncombustible in itself ...
but when in contact with combustible material it ignites and can be explosive...
it also says it is unstable in large concentrations and can be shock ignited...
that tells me that pumped into the building as it was, where there was already open flame, and being in large quantity, it was concentrated not to mention the very combustible material the building was made of and had in it...IMO it caused the fire
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:57 PM   #79
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Link?
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:05 PM   #80
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I don't have a link, i did not copy it.. I just entered tear gas and msds sheets into google....I used to have an msds sheet on that but that was a long time ago and we have reduced our msds sheet inventory to products we actually use.
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