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Old 11-30-2017, 07:23 PM   #61
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And waiting until something happens is why the aliens will win.

NK has demonstrated it has nuclear weapons. They have launched a missile that can reach anywhere in the United States.
Their leaders have shown a generational lack of respect for their country, their economy and their people. They have ignored requests to stop this path even though it's been more than the U.S. that's made the request. Even though it's obvious that if they keep going something bad is likely to happen.
Do we just assume that if we turn a blind eye, he will settle down and stop this madness or do we recall he has shown himself to be pretty crazy and just might launch one at us?

Just for the sake of horror, let's pretend that he does the latter. You are the president, now how do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing that the 100,000 Americans that died in the fireball would still be alive if you had done what you are sworn to do and protect the country?
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:25 PM   #62
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Let me guess...
you would make a largely incomprehensible tweet made up of a mixture of capital and lower case letters with a sprinkling of arrows and dashes.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:30 PM   #63
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Your opinion is flawed being your grammar done been tried and failed
i'm so scared of the grammar police. Covfefe
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:25 PM   #64
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i'm so scared of the grammar police. Covfefe
oh I'm certainly not the grammar police, I just thought that what you typed was hilariously bad
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:04 AM   #65
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It's not a question of whether or not we are the victims.

The question is, are we going to allow ourselves to become the victims or are we going to do something to prevent becoming the victims?
If we do get attacked, we are still not the victims....we would be getting paid back....blowback....with our constant interference around the world we can look forward to the constant threat of blowback...and it has been going on for decades...we seem to think we know better what other nations need and what form of government they should have...we have earned our bitter enemies...
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:46 AM   #66
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Yeah, how awful of us to try to spread freedom and democracy.

Sure we often do it with an ulterior motive, either they become trading partners or they have oil but, bottom line is they are better for it too.

And how awful of us to try to save countries from horrible dictators. At least we are trying to use the power we've built to make the world better.
We don't go invade other countries and enslave their people. Which we could.

If anything the U.S. has been a benevolent influence even if we are heavy handed at times.
Letting a country like NK have nukes is a threat to world stability. All of his neighbors should thank us if we take them out.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:50 AM   #67
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Mean tweet the out of them
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:52 AM   #68
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Quote:
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If we do get attacked, we are still not the victims....we would be getting paid back....blowback....with our constant interference around the world we can look forward to the constant threat of blowback...and it has been going on for decades...we seem to think we know better what other nations need and what form of government they should have...we have earned our bitter enemies...
I think the US should bow out of it but we can't. Unfortunately our imperialism has created a lot of enemies. I would worry about NK selling nukes. They already make a tidy profit selling weapons to many of our enemies all over the world. We will continue to spend billions to keep North Korea surrounded with US military bases. Last minute talks will lead to billions in foreign aid being sent. We are stuck having to keep our global military operations running because we have so many enemies. In the end, we will be bankrupted just like the Soviet Union. Better start brushing up on your Mandarin.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:02 AM   #69
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Good point!
The media didn't make a big deal about it but about 3 weeks ago we stopped a shipment of 20,000 shoulder launched rockets reaching its destination.
It was disguised as a load of iron ore but we found the rockets underneath.

North Korea had sold them. Guess who bought them...

Egypt. Now why would one of our main allies in the middle East buy shoulder launched rockets?
Any reason to think Iran, Iraq, Syria etc wouldn't want to buy some nukes?
Just the opposite NK would love to sell some.

Yeah, we should really wait to do anything about it!
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:06 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Yeah, how awful of us to try to spread freedom and democracy.

Sure we often do it with an ulterior motive, either they become trading partners or they have oil but, bottom line is they are better for it too.

And how awful of us to try to save countries from horrible dictators. At least we are trying to use the power we've built to make the world better.
We don't go invade other countries and enslave their people. Which we could.

If anything the U.S. has been a benevolent influence even if we are heavy handed at times.
Letting a country like NK have nukes is a threat to world stability. All of his neighbors should thank us if we take them out.
Really? Educate me, name one place that we interfered that the folks are better off because of it. Tell me how much better off, how much more stable the region is now that Saddam is gone. Not every culture or religion understands or even want our version of democracy.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:26 AM   #71
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Panama?
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:49 AM   #72
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What about the Philippines?

Let's not forget South Korea.

Pretty much ALL of Europe is better off because we sent our military there. And they remain better off because our military is still there.
There a millions that live in the South Pacific Islands that are better off because we came and saved them from the Japanese.

Have we had failures? Sure, Vietnam and the Mid-east, so far along with many others.
Now name me places where we went in just to meddle, just to mess things up. Show me where we used our power to intentionally people over.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:51 AM   #73
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North Korea is widely accused of having perhaps the worst human rights record in the world.[164] North Koreans have been referred to as "some of the world's most brutalized people" by Human Rights Watch, because of the severe restrictions placed on their political and economic freedoms.[165][166] The North Korean population is strictly managed by the state and all aspects of daily life are subordinated to party and state planning. Employment is managed by the party on the basis of political reliability, and travel is tightly controlled by the Ministry of People's Security.[167]
Amnesty International reports of severe restrictions on the freedom of association, expression and movement, arbitrary detention, torture and other ill-treatment resulting in death, and executions.[168]
The State Security Department extrajudicially apprehends and imprisons those accused of political crimes without due process.[169] People perceived as hostile to the government, such as Christians or critics of the leadership,[170] are deported to labor camps without trial,[171] often with their whole family and mostly without any chance of being released.[172]
Based on satellite images and defector testimonies, Amnesty International estimates that around 200,000 prisoners are held in six large political prison camps,[170][173] where they are forced to work in conditions approaching slavery.[174] Supporters of the government who deviate from the government line are subject to reeducation in sections of labor camps set aside for that purpose. Those who are deemed politically rehabilitated may reassume responsible government positions on their release.[175]
North Korean defectors[176] have provided detailed testimonies on the existence of the total control zones where abuses such as torture, starvation, rape, murder, medical experimentation, forced labor, and forced abortions have been reported.[177] On the basis of these abuses, as well as persecution on political, religious, racial and gender grounds, forcible transfer of populations, enforced disappearance of persons and forced starvation, the United Nations Commission of Inquiry has accused North Korea of crimes against humanity.[178][179][180] The International Coalition to Stop Crimes Against Humanity in North Korea (ICNK) estimates that over 10,000 people die in North Korean prison camps every year.[181]
The North Korean government rejects the human rights abuses claims, calling them "a smear campaign" and a "human rights racket" aimed at government change.[182][183][184] In a report to the UN, North Korea dismissed accusations of atrocities as "wild rumors". The government admitted some human rights issues related to living conditions and stated that it is working to improve them.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
What about the Philippines?

Let's not forget South Korea.

Pretty much ALL of Europe is better off because we sent our military there. And they remain better off because our military is still there.
There a millions that live in the South Pacific Islands that are better off because we came and saved them from the Japanese.

Have we had failures? Sure, Vietnam and the Mid-east, so far along with many others.
Now name me places where we went in just to meddle, just to mess things up. Show me where we used our power to intentionally people over.
simple, most of the places you mentioned. Panama and the Philippines both
kicked us out when they realized how we operated and who was getting the best end of the deal. Europe was not part of our imperialism, they requested our help and ushered us out when the help was no longer needed. We have had NO intervention and nation building successes, except for the big business interests that maneuver our government to use the lives of young people to insure their profits.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:36 AM   #75
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simple, most of the places you mentioned. Panama and the Philippines both
kicked us out when they realized how we operated and who was getting the best end of the deal. Europe was not part of our imperialism, they requested our help and ushered us out when the help was no longer needed. We have had NO intervention and nation building successes, except for the big business interests that maneuver our government to use the lives of young people to insure their profits.
So you say.
You say Europe ushered us out? We are still there, with a HUGE presence.
Same with Philippines and Panama.

You make these statements ood how they threw us out but they aren't true. We are still in all those places and they are better because we are there.

You demanded i name a place where I referred and folks are better. Inamed several and like a good liberal you change the conversation. Now instead of whether or not the people of Panama etc are better off, you suddenly want to talk about American business manipulating the govt.
That's a whole different subject and ill probably agree with you on that topic.
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:38 PM   #76
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Quote:
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So you say.
You say Europe ushered us out? We are still there, with a HUGE presence.
Same with Philippines and Panama.

You make these statements ood how they threw us out but they aren't true. We are still in all those places and they are better because we are there.

You demanded i name a place where I referred and folks are better. Inamed several and like a good liberal you change the conversation. Now instead of whether or not the people of Panama etc are better off, you suddenly want to talk about American business manipulating the govt.
That's a whole different subject and ill probably agree with you on that topic.
you need to recheck your facts on the philippines and Panama...
we are not very well liked in either place...and on the whole we have been removed compared to what our former presence was and what we control...
and no the people are not better off because of us... their individual plights are not better...
we do not have a huge presence in europe at all...except Germany, whom we did not go over to help... we have a very small presence in scotland and spain...not much else...american business manipulating the government is why our government has been an imperialistic machine and has been behind every war we have fought... ever....including our own internal war...
we are and have been a profit hungry war machine from the beginning...and why (thankfully) all wars except the first one, and the 1812 one and the war against yankee aggression, we fought on foreign soil...
until you called me a liberal, I thought you were bright, just mistaken...
now I think I have to back off the bright part.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:24 PM   #77
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You are arguing that we should ignore a madman with nuclear weapons unless he attacks us.

That is a liberal point of view.

We have roughly 60,000 troops in Europe. When you look at the number of bases we operate or share and the amount of materiel that includes, I'd call that a robust presence.

I didn't say we made friends and everyone likes us in Panama and Philippines but they are better off because we are there.
Philippines would crumble into tribal warfare and become a worse muslim hot spot and you can't be serious about Panama. If we hadn't removed Noriega, by now they would be screwed.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:29 PM   #78
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So then WWII was a bad move on our part?
Germany didn't attack us. We violated our own laws to get involved in Europe.

Obviously Japan was a different story but according to your logic we had no business in Europe.

Right? Wait until they attack us directly before we do anything. Right?

So if you're in a dark parking lot and some crazy comes up threatening you with a tire iron, you won't react until AFTER he hits you?
They were sinking our merchant marine ships.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:53 PM   #79
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They were sinking our merchant marine ships.
The U.S. got involved in WWII when we were attacked by the Japanese and then 3 days later Germany and Italy declared war on us.
We already knew the Japanese, Italy and Germany had formed an alliance and it was proven when the European legs of the Axis power declared war against us.
At that point we had no choice but to be involved.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:32 PM   #80
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The U.S. got involved in WWII when we were attacked by the Japanese and then 3 days later Germany and Italy declared war on us.
We already knew the Japanese, Italy and Germany had formed an alliance and it was proven when the European legs of the Axis power declared war against us.
At that point we had no choice but to be involved.
And what caused that to happen
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