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Old 11-29-2017, 04:13 PM   #21
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^^^^^bla bla bla ^^^^^
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:31 PM   #22
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So then WWII was a bad move on our part?
Germany didn't attack us. We violated our own laws to get involved in Europe.

Obviously Japan was a different story but according to your logic we had no business in Europe.

Right? Wait until they attack us directly before we do anything. Right?

So if you're in a dark parking lot and some crazy comes up threatening you with a tire iron, you won't react until AFTER he hits you?
keep your line where all the dots are connected....
We took our time getting into the war in Europe...and by that time there was a war where our allies were being attacked, even then, there were some who felt we should not have been there...WW1 was even called wilson's war....
also in the parking lot scenario that is up close and personal, he is not reacting to a threat I made, or any restriction of his sustenance on my part...
it could be that the folks N. Korea see us as the aggressor here, and not without some justification.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:55 PM   #23
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keep your line where all the dots are connected....
We took our time getting into the war in Europe...and by that time there was a war where our allies were being attacked, even then, there were some who felt we should not have been there...WW1 was even called wilson's war....
also in the parking lot scenario that is up close and personal, he is not reacting to a threat I made, or any restriction of his sustenance on my part...
it could be that the folks N. Korea see us as the aggressor here, and not without some justification.
I think the people of Japan may very well feel attacked and with good reason. He landed an ICBM inside their territorial waters after months of launching missiles, essentially over their heads.
Japan is our ally, right? Not a huge leap to say, our ally is being attacked. Would that justify our involvement? or our encouraging Japan to react?

As far as us being the aggressor. Pfft, that's all about how far back you go. Who started this confrontation? The U.S. or the rocket man? Who started rattling sabers and launching missiles?

In the parking lot, he threatened you and you told him, "Don't make me have to kick you're . Don't threaten me any more".
Now he jumps up and down and says you are threatening HIM. And he starts waving his tire iron in your face.
Repeatedly you tell him, "This is a path that will end bad for you".

But he just keeps coming closer to hitting you and screaming he is reacting to YOU.

Now, do you wait for him to hit you or do you cold him?

If the folks of North Korea see us as the aggressors, the do it with NO justification. The population may believe it is us that started this but that is a lie.
The great leader is leading them down this path and the U.S. has, so far, shown great restraint.
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:35 PM   #24
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trump is a wonderful anti american recruiters wet dream. no matter how wrong someone is, trumps man child behavior is sure to inflame a situation

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Old 11-29-2017, 06:27 PM   #25
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trump is a wonderful anti american recruiters wet dream. no matter how wrong someone is, trumps man child behavior is sure to inflame a situation
trump could send his daughter to NK to fix KJU
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:30 PM   #26
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I look at we are the big dude on the block and if some little foriegn chunky fatboy with a bad haircut threaten the big dude. The bid dude is not going to care what other people think he is just going to kick the literal out of the chunky dude with a big mouth. I don't understand why we care the rest of the world thinks so much. Fark them.
yeah and in the real world

the cops arrest you for assault and 15 other trump up charges and then the fatboys lawyer sue you and it be all on a cell phone on youtube or facebook

this ain't 1950
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:25 AM   #27
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RISKY times

tRump thinks he's the only player in a very RISKy game ... everyone gets a turn alliances are important ... BTW > hotels on boardwalk or park place don't count in risky times ... someone needs to explain the rules to tRump before he declares that he is the greatest best of all time risk player
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:02 AM   #28
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^ Newk mAp?
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:43 AM   #29
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our last POTUS was big on making statements and not following through too...
the whole draw a red line in the sand thing...
What gives us the right to tell any other nation what they can and can not do in the way of developing weapons?
Shut up and move on....if they attack us, then do what has to be done...
When I was in high school, I asked my dad what he thought about us intervening in N Korea and whether it was right to try to tell them that we were allowed nuclear grade weapons and they weren't. Whether it was our place to step in and stop what they were doing preemptively or whether it was only morally reasonable to react if they did indeed attack. I had the same point of view that you have express here. I found his response to be something that I still consider to this day, in this complicated issue.

He said, "Imagine there is a kid who brings a gun to school. He's been threatening the other kids, you know he has brought this gun to either intimidate or even kill other kids to subject then to his will. Now imagine that you have the ability to take the gun away from him before the school day even starts, before he has made it clear what he is or is not going to do with it. And you know he's a bad kid and you know what he claims he'll do, he just hasn't done it yet. Do you take the gun away?"

I'm not sure if we take the gun away from N Korea by force. That said, I think that global nuclear disarmament is necessary, or eventually we will all die in a nuclear holocaust. There is no question of if, but when. As military technology continues to increase, the "bad kids with guns" get weapons that are increasingly powerful. And with that comes volatility. The offensive capabilities outscale the defensive capabilities by several orders of magnitude. If we don't try to curb military technology on that scale of destruction, it's just a matter of when. So N Korea is an important issue, to be certain. But they are also a symptom of the real problem.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:44 AM   #30
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That's how ya do it!
They will use forensics to reassemble all the pieces of the missile they can find, they will study the chemicals in the explosives and residue in the rocket motor. They will look at data plates, serial numbers, part numbers etc. and they will be able to tell where it came from.

Knowing that, we could make a missile that looks like one the Chinese or Russians have. Mark all the components accordingly, use the right chemistry etc. and then plausibly deny we did it.
Yeah but then they find this forum post and suddenly we're
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:47 AM   #31
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either that or forget our pretense of law and order, of being innocent until proven guilty, or believing that one actually has to commit a crime before punishment for that crime is administered.
Did you forget that we arrest people who we can prove are in the process of attempting to commit a crime? This isn't like arresting a guy who looks up how to make a bomb on the internet and says some bad things about his local shopping mall and you "put 2 and 2 together" and arrest him as if he was gonna blow the place up. This is like when a guy says he is going to blow up the mall and you go look in his garage and see he's been stockpiling explosives...
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:48 AM   #32
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thats funny because america hired one of the most self serving born rich narcissist billionaires with a million conflicts of interest to drain the swamp. like hiring a trash company to end trash

i kid you not. throw a dart blindfolded at a board of billionaires and you would likely find someone better to clean the corruption
Yeah but don't forget we almost hired someone even more corrupt than Trump
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:12 AM   #33
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That said, I think that global nuclear disarmament is necessary, or eventually we will all die in a nuclear holocaust .
I totally agree with you here. Although they helped at the end of ww2, I wish they would have never been developed. I am for dismantling all of them before one of these world leader decide he is going to be the instrument of armageddon. But other than when Jesus comes back to rule the world I don't ever see that happening.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:52 AM   #34
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Nuclear disarmament is as bad an idea as banning guns.

You can pass the laws, sign treatys, make agreements and everybody swears to play by the rules but there will always be those who think, if everybody complies but i don't, i can be in charge!
Only thing is, everybody at the table is thinking that too.

Consequently, nobody will completely disarm. They will all keep a little sumpthin sumpthin in they back pocket.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:05 PM   #35
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Nuclear disarmament is as bad an idea as banning guns.

You can pass the laws, sign treatys, make agreements and everybody swears to play by the rules but there will always be those who think, if everybody complies but i don't, i can be in charge!
Only thing is, everybody at the table is thinking that too.

Consequently, nobody will completely disarm. They will all keep a little sumpthin sumpthin in they back pocket.
It's not a bad idea, it's fundamentally necessary that we find a way to make it happen OR we will all die in a nuclear holocaust. If there is legitimately no way for global nuclear disarmament to occur, then we will die as a species. Pretty simple. I understand your concerns about the feasibility of it and I have the same concerns, but it's necessary for the survival of the human race.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:08 PM   #36
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Did you forget that we arrest people who we can prove are in the process of attempting to commit a crime? This isn't like arresting a guy who looks up how to make a bomb on the internet and says some bad things about his local shopping mall and you "put 2 and 2 together" and arrest him as if he was gonna blow the place up. This is like when a guy says he is going to blow up the mall and you go look in his garage and see he's been stockpiling explosives...
we can prove are in the PROCESS of ATTEMPTING to commit a crime, an interesting phrase...
what crime is NK in the process of attempting? Trying to demonstrate that they have the means of defending themselves from our proven imperialistic control of others?
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:13 PM   #37
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^ Newk mAp?
> RISKy board
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:00 PM   #38
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When I was in high school, I asked my dad what he thought about us intervening in N Korea and whether it was right to try to tell them that we were allowed nuclear grade weapons and they weren't. Whether it was our place to step in and stop what they were doing preemptively or whether it was only morally reasonable to react if they did indeed attack. I had the same point of view that you have express here. I found his response to be something that I still consider to this day, in this complicated issue.

He said, "Imagine there is a kid who brings a gun to school. He's been threatening the other kids, you know he has brought this gun to either intimidate or even kill other kids to subject then to his will. Now imagine that you have the ability to take the gun away from him before the school day even starts, before he has made it clear what he is or is not going to do with it. And you know he's a bad kid and you know what he claims he'll do, he just hasn't done it yet. Do you take the gun away?"

I'm not sure if we take the gun away from N Korea by force. That said, I think that global nuclear disarmament is necessary, or eventually we will all die in a nuclear holocaust. There is no question of if, but when. As military technology continues to increase, the "bad kids with guns" get weapons that are increasingly powerful. And with that comes volatility. The offensive capabilities outscale the defensive capabilities by several orders of magnitude. If we don't try to curb military technology on that scale of destruction, it's just a matter of when. So N Korea is an important issue, to be certain. But they are also a symptom of the real problem.
Back in 1950 you tried to take that gun away . It didn't work out then , So what makes you think you have the for a second round in 2017 .
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:19 PM   #39
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Back in 1950 you tried to take that gun away . It didn't work out then , So what makes you think you have the for a second round in 2017 .
Who is "you"? I wasn't alive in 1950. I am not sure if you read my post critically or not because I did not advocate one thing or another, I just offered a perspective that my dad gave me many years ago. I don't quite know how I feel about what we should do.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:22 PM   #40
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we can prove are in the PROCESS of ATTEMPTING to commit a crime, an interesting phrase...
what crime is NK in the process of attempting? Trying to demonstrate that they have the means of defending themselves from our proven imperialistic control of others?
Only the crimes they have claimed to be dedicated to committing, numerous times over the years, such as "mercilessly wiping out the aggressors" (PS we're in the group of "aggressors").

If someone says "I am learning how to build a gun so I can come blow your house up and kill you and everyone you love", you don't have to wait until they're done building the bomb and walking over to your house with it to stop them.
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