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Old 01-20-2017, 09:37 AM   #1
RACER X
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Ducati going to V4

http://m.crash.net/wsbk/news/237933/...uperbikes.html
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:48 AM   #2
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Oooh cool.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:20 AM   #3
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Well, they can;t make the twin any bigger really. Makes sense.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:06 AM   #4
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Well, they can;t make the twin any bigger really. Makes sense.
Just keep boring and stroking it
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #5
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"Masterpiece of engineering"

i.e.

"You thought the current engine maintenance was expensive"
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:25 PM   #6
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I've always thought the V-4 was the perfect engine configuration.
Rumors have been circulating for Honda to release a new V-4 superbike in 2018 also.
Just hoping they make a production version that is more obtainable than the current RC213V-S.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
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"Masterpiece of engineering"

i.e.

"You thought the current engine maintenance was expensive"
Current valve service intervals are 15,000 miles. I use the same oil as everyone else. Filter is around $30.

What makes my engine maintenance expensive?
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Current valve service intervals are 15,000 miles. I use the same oil as everyone else. Filter is around $30.

What makes my engine maintenance expensive?
Have you had a valve service as of yet? It's my understanding that they need to basically dismantle the front of the bike to do that on the new "frameless" design.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:25 PM   #9
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Due to the frameless (Monocoque rather) design, it's labor intensive but I do my own services. Dealer charges 10 hours for the service, but I've noticed they're on the high end. For example, they quote six hours for the full Akrapovic install, I did it in four.

I've never taken a bike in for a valve service. What's the typical timeline for those?
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:28 AM   #10
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Few hours and a few hundred dollars
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:10 AM   #11
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I got an idea. DUCATI should get rid of its best handling trellis frame and go with a setup that has not worked well in moto gp for a decade and handles like and then give it a ton of power and sell it to the public who can't ride worth a flip. Does anyone see any logic in this at all. Who doesn't want to stick that V4 into a trellis frame on one of their old bikes. That would kill everything on the track.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:29 AM   #12
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Going back to the trellis would be a huge step backwards. Alvaro Bautista has ridden almost every factory bike out there and said the Ducati was the best balanced bike on the grid. I'm not sure which bike you're stating handles like . The GP16 or the Panigale, but you I would highly disagree with both counts.

It seems to be working out fine in BSB and WSBK as well.
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Old 01-21-2017, 03:45 PM   #13
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Yep Ducati has fixed the handling issues. I think most of it stemmed from the bridgestones they were using.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:03 PM   #14
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Let me know when they can win with it.. Then they will have it fixed. Checa won with a far slower bike. Stoner has been the only one how could do anything with the frameless bike and killed the field when he left ducati and went to honda. Rossi failed on it and lorenzo says he can't win with the front in its curent comdition. No one ever argued whether or not the trellis frame bikes were the best handling bikes. I wonder if ducati still has the same reputation with the frameless design... Moto gp is not even worth discussing if that is a good chassis since its been the hardest bike to win on for over a decade now even with the spectacular electronics and abundance of power and quality of riders they have thrown at it. Maybe one day they will get it right but as it stands the trellis chassis has a rep for being the best handling bike , the new chassis does not. Frameless has a hard time puting power down in a corner and likes to push the front.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:50 PM   #15
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Here you go:

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2016/0...feeling/207295

http://www.crash.net/bsb/feature/234...bsb-title.html

I don't know if you followed the last half of WSBK last year, but my money is on Chaz ending the Kawi reign this year. He was on a roll. You mentioned Checa winning on a a slower bike, it's well known that the 1199RM is approximately 20hp down from the Aprilia. I'm sure this was the major motivator for the V4.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ducati Corse knows a bit more about a GP chassis than either of us. If the trellis was superior, it would still be used.
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Due to the frameless (Monocoque rather) design, it's labor intensive but I do my own services. Dealer charges 10 hours for the service, but I've noticed they're on the high end. For example, they quote six hours for the full Akrapovic install, I did it in four.

I've never taken a bike in for a valve service. What's the typical timeline for those?
Lol.. TEN hours labor every 15k miles?

Contrast that to four hours every 28k on my FJR and $4 for an oil filter versus your $30.

Yeah, your Duc IS expensive!!
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:17 PM   #17
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Lol.. TEN hours labor every 15k miles?

Contrast that to four hours every 28k on my FJR and $4 for an oil filter versus your $30.

Yeah, your Duc IS expensive!!
Are you really comparing a sport tourer to a superbike? Wouldn't a comparison to a Multistrada be a bit more fair?

Just looked up the valve service on a Multi. 6 hours.
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:32 PM   #18
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It will be interesting to see how KTM develops their V4 in the trellis frame.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Are you really comparing a sport tourer to a superbike? Wouldn't a comparison to a Multistrada be a bit more fair?

Just looked up the valve service on a Multi. 6 hours.
On my Triumph triples it's about $250 or so for a shop to do it.
That's every 15K miles.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:55 AM   #20
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Sounds like they want to try and sell somthing closer to what they race in GP. I think it's in response to the others who are doing the same.

Aprilla the latest to offer up their GP bike for sale, complete with pneumatic valves, Honda didn't even do that for other GP teams they sold bikes too.

Suzuki have made a clear connection with their latest 2017 bike and KTM announced from the get go that their plans to enter MotoGP were centered at selling it as a high end customer track bike.

Ducati seem to be caught on the backfoot alittle in this regard, hence their remark days after Aprilla were the latest to made their announcement.

In superbike racing Ducati have been coming good this last year and I am curious to see how that carries over to this year when the other mfgrs get their new homologation specials for 2017.

The last years the rules came back to homologated models, meaning Kawi could no longer use titanium parts that were not on their road bike and they lost performance, but since Ducatis race specials already had titanium parts they could race them while others could'nt. For example, if Aprilla wanted to make 500 of those pnumatic valved GP bikes for sale at 40K they could run those in WSBK too and have an advantage over the rest of the field.


Speaking of frames,.. the Ducati trellis GP bike was just as much a frameless design as the carbon one that superseded it, mounting direct from the engine top works and not extending down to the base of engine or swing arm mount.

http://www.sportrider.com/sites/spor...?itok=LCyAK2ol

http://198.57.190.63/~motoaus/wp-con..._gp9-frame.jpg

This all only changed when Rossi declared the bike unrideable. Concurrently the engine was also detuned and Ducati did not clock high too speeds again in GP until Rossis departure when they once again unleashed their motors potential.

Interesting here now back on frames is that Suzuki have also decided to combine carbon fiber into their chasiss design by using carbon struts to hang and grab onto the front of engine. These straps come down from the full length aluminum spar and gives them a ridgid but tunable element for side stiffness while keeping stiffness for braking forces high.

http://amcn.com.au/wp-content/upload...gine-mount.jpg

Can read about it more here, be sure to click on the preview and you can read the first five pages free. It includes a very intrsting acceleration data plot if you get nothing else out of it.., http://papers.sae.org/2015-32-0839/
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