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Old 06-11-2009, 11:34 AM   #1
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endurance vs. sprint racing

so whats the big deal between the two? here's what i think

both are exciting, both are extremely fun. if you go by per lap costs, endurance racing is cheaper by far. endurance racing involves more strategy and important that the team operates as 1. an endurance race can be won or lost on the track or in the pits. winning and losing is dependant on all team members.

sprint racing is a nonstop adrenaline rush. you got sometimes what it seems, a short amount of laps to give it your all and prove where you stand against your competition. winning or losing ALL depends on YOU and only you. there is nobody else to blame on a sprint race.

my thoughts on endurance racing...
one of the main strategies is making the bikes equipment last. that usually puts you at 90% pace and helps you focus on getting faster at a smoother pace. you have lots of laps to think about how you can go faster. there are plenty of different skill levels out there and plenty of VERY fast riders you can learn from while out there. turn by turn there is always something to learn (yes, that rhymed, and it sounded gooood ). it is GREAT practice if you plan on doing sprint races the following day. you have the time to learn the limits of your bike, your tires, and yourself.

my thoughts on sprint racing...
when sprinting, you are on a time crunch. with little time you must do what it takes to get up front or stay up there. there is not much time for learning as most sprint races vary from 6-8 laps. so with that being said, you push your hardest cuz the victory depends on you! usually you will hear a lot of people say during their sprint race, they are 2 or 3 seconds faster than their practice pace. why is that? cuz the adrenaline and the focus of catching the guy in front takes over. if you are leading the race.....the focus of staying up there takes over all thoughts. which is also another reason why most people cannot practice at the same pace as their race. you focus so much on position that you dont have much time to learn anything else. it can be a close battle from start to finish.

which one do i like better? i couldn't tell you. all i can say is that i wish i woudn't have waited so long to start doing the big bike endurancing. it's good training physically and mentally. it's probably helped me during trackdays. when i was instructing with TTD on double weekends, i could ride both days 2 sessions per hour, and come home feeling better than most of you guys/gals that can barely walk.

so any of you guys out there that wanna get into racing.....try em both out. you won't be disappointed with either one. you very well may be doing both as well.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:42 AM   #2
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very well put. Since I am not near my peak skill wise I enjoy endurance more. Prolly the learning I do from guys like D.Dominguez, GAbe, MAtt Hall, etc etc. It is definately a different mindset than sprinting. You are right about pit stops helping secure positions. I can speak for my team. We gain at least one place b/c of our pit stops. So far in three races we have done exceptionally well for a new team, bike, etc. Just think if we didn't crash or run out of gas at Cresson, or crash at Hallett, we would easily be looking at 2 podiums.

I hope you take your own adivce and we make wise decisions when pitting this weekend. Could be the difference between 1st and second
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:43 AM   #3
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Nice write up. My problem will be how to convince the woman that I won't kill/permanently hurt myself. She lists racing up there with ****ing other women (not swingers so that means no).
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
Nice write up. My problem will be how to convince the woman that I won't kill/permanently hurt myself. She lists racing up there with ****ing other women (not swingers so that means no).
well, you could cross the street and get killed. go swimming at the beach and a shark eat you alive. ride a bicycle fall off and break your neck. take the last piece of cake at the buffet and have a fat man eat you cuz the cake's in your belly. you get the picture.

it doesn't take much to get yourself killed these days. you might be able to live with yourself by taking less risks, or you can die one day knowing you did everything you wanted. (that includes fcking other women if that's on your bucket list)
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
so whats the big deal between the two? here's what i think

both are exciting, both are extremely fun. if you go by per lap costs, endurance racing is cheaper by far. endurance racing involves more strategy and important that the team operates as 1. an endurance race can be won or lost on the track or in the pits. winning and losing is dependant on all team members.

sprint racing is a nonstop adrenaline rush. you got sometimes what it seems, a short amount of laps to give it your all and prove where you stand against your competition. winning or losing ALL depends on YOU and only you. there is nobody else to blame on a sprint race.

my thoughts on endurance racing...
one of the main strategies is making the bikes equipment last. that usually puts you at 90% pace and helps you focus on getting faster at a smoother pace. you have lots of laps to think about how you can go faster. there are plenty of different skill levels out there and plenty of VERY fast riders you can learn from while out there. turn by turn there is always something to learn (yes, that rhymed, and it sounded gooood ). it is GREAT practice if you plan on doing sprint races the following day. you have the time to learn the limits of your bike, your tires, and yourself.

my thoughts on sprint racing...
when sprinting, you are on a time crunch. with little time you must do what it takes to get up front or stay up there. there is not much time for learning as most sprint races vary from 6-8 laps. so with that being said, you push your hardest cuz the victory depends on you! usually you will hear a lot of people say during their sprint race, they are 2 or 3 seconds faster than their practice pace. why is that? cuz the adrenaline and the focus of catching the guy in front takes over. if you are leading the race.....the focus of staying up there takes over all thoughts. which is also another reason why most people cannot practice at the same pace as their race. you focus so much on position that you dont have much time to learn anything else. it can be a close battle from start to finish.

which one do i like better? i couldn't tell you. all i can say is that i wish i woudn't have waited so long to start doing the big bike endurancing. it's good training physically and mentally. it's probably helped me during trackdays. when i was instructing with TTD on double weekends, i could ride both days 2 sessions per hour, and come home feeling better than most of you guys/gals that can barely walk.

so any of you guys out there that wanna get into racing.....try em both out. you won't be disappointed with either one. you very well may be doing both as well.
How true is the statement above (bold, underlined)?? In general terms, and i mean VERY general, is it more on a whole alittle less cut-throat and more of having a good time with your buds??

<---------------scared shitless to get into racing bikes and take the fun out of it and take it to fakking serious. Usually my habit, i refuse to ruin this
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian f. View Post
How true is the statement above (bold, underlined)?? In general terms, and i mean VERY general, is it more on a whole alittle less cut-throat and more of having a good time with your buds??

<---------------scared shitless to get into racing bikes and take the fun out of it and take it to fakking serious. Usually my habit, i refuse to ruin this
no it's not like racing with your buds. it's still very competitive. But a faster guy can be more patient when trying to pass you. He doesn't have a handful of laps, he has a hand full of hours. LOL and turn by turn you can learn b/c a novice racer is out there with AMA guys. You go nto a turn and watch what they do. Then you can try that for the next 45 minutes to an hour.

Just me talking here, but racing the best of the best. it doesnt get any funner than racing. Plus you are constently learning about your bike and what it can do. The tires and what they can do, etc etc. I had a old racer tell me to go racing i would never regret it. And trust me, I thank him everyday. Trackdays are no where as near as fun as racing. You have to experience it to believe me. Go to LSTD and take the CMRA Race School, just for the mock race. You will get a little taste of what the good life is like
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian f. View Post
How true is the statement above (bold, underlined)?? In general terms, and i mean VERY general, is it more on a whole alittle less cut-throat and more of having a good time with your buds??

<---------------scared shitless to get into racing bikes and take the fun out of it and take it to fakking serious. Usually my habit, i refuse to ruin this
yes, a little less cut-throat out there. but if you are on the last few hour of the race and you have 2 guys going head to head for the overall win.....well, it'll be cut throat.

it is still competitive out there....but it generally far less cut throat than sprint racing. there are PLENTY of teams out there that are just having a good time with their buds.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
Nice write up. My problem will be how to convince the woman that I won't kill/permanently hurt myself. She lists racing up there with ****ing other women (not swingers so that means no).
I feel sorry for you man.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
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no it's not like racing with your buds. it's still very competitive. But a faster guy can be more patient when trying to pass you. He doesn't have a handful of laps, he has a hand full of hours. LOL and turn by turn you can learn b/c a novice racer is out there with AMA guys. You go nto a turn and watch what they do. Then you can try that for the next 45 minutes to an hour.

Just me talking here, but racing the best of the best. it doesnt get any funner than racing. Plus you are constently learning about your bike and what it can do. The tires and what they can do, etc etc. I had a old racer tell me to go racing i would never regret it. And trust me, I thank him everyday. Trackdays are no where as near as fun as racing. You have to experience it to believe me. Go to LSTD and take the CMRA Race School, just for the mock race. You will get a little taste of what the good life is like
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
yes, a little less cut-throat out there. but if you are on the last few hour of the race and you have 2 guys going head to head for the overall win.....well, it'll be cut throat.

it is still competitive out there....but it generally far less cut throat than sprint racing. there are PLENTY of teams out there that are just having a good time with their buds.

Thanks for the additional input and thoughts. Still not sure what to make of it all for me personally.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Thanks for the additional input and thoughts. Still not sure what to make of it all for me personally.
Like I said. Do a LSTD TD and take their race school. Just for the mock race, or maybe even talk to Their guys and let them know you are not quit sure about this racing bit and would like to see what it is all about. Ask if you can participate in the mock race, just to get an idea of what it's like. They are really great guys and Steve runs a class act org. He may allow it. I do not know of any other TD that has a mock race in it, so it's LSTD or keep guessing. LOL
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:36 PM   #11
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Is it worth risking your life and limbs to race???? Only you could answer that, but if you don't try then you'll never know. I have a friend that gotten hurt and now he's out of it. There are others that have fallen but still back in the game.
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:23 PM   #12
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Is it worth risking your life and limbs to race???? Only you could answer that, but if you don't try then you'll never know. I have a friend that gotten hurt and now he's out of it. There are others that have fallen but still back in the game.
Your friend from Cresson? How is he btw?
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:25 PM   #13
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Your friend from Cresson? How is he btw?
eagle canyon. He's all healed up but his outlook on racing is not the same.
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:32 PM   #14
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For those who fear injury there is always a safer, slower, less expensive, but equally thrill packed alternative:

TMGP (aka Texas Mini Grand Prix, aka www.TMGPS.8k.com)

It's the most fun I have on two wheels. You'll find out really fast if you are fast or slow, competitive or not, up to the physical challenge, etc... And you'll learn how to control "a bike", so when you step up to the full size bikes you'll feel completely in control in a race / trackday environment.

Plus it's all in Texas, 3 tracks in Denton, Katy, Henderson.

Has endurance and sprints. Can do a whole weekend, all the races, for $150 or so, or just endurance for $50 or so. License for a year is $35, rider's / race school is $30. Ready to race F7 bikes can be had for well under $1000. F5 bikes maybe $2-3000.

Come check out Oak Hill this weekend. It's CMRA mini and motard weekend.
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Old 06-11-2009, 02:08 PM   #15
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Tony's analogy is spot on. I prefer to endurance race at tracks or on bikes that I'm not familiar with. I've found that running an endurance race on the Friday prepared me well for the sprint races - that's if I have anything left in the tank for Sat & Sunday.
Last year we came in 2nd place overall on an sv650 running the ASRA Team Challenge. We lead the pts race until the 2nd to last race @ VIR where the eventually winners smoked us. It was an amazing year given that ether of us had ever endurances before, that the old built SV held up, that we managed to bring in 3 other riders and two other bikes (mine and a friend's bike in DC) at different times. We learned a ton and were arguably very lucky to get that close.
This year I decided to start my own team "wilkins x racing" on an SS R6 bought in Austin. The first round, we benefitted from attrition - out of 9 teams, 5 crashed out in horrible conditions (wet & cold) - we managed to keep it up on one set of tires finishing 3rd. The second race we finished 7th out of 9 @ TWS (Texas World Speedway) getting biten by a broken exhaust hanger. Since then I've been riding for another SV team out of Chicago and we finished dead last @ Road America - broken intake valve in rear cylinder and a slow team owner. The team crashed out in third place @ Blackhawk farms two weeks ago. Our next race will be Topeka in July.
I'm planning to bring the R6 back from Chicago to do the last 2-3 CMRA rounds...
Cool thing about endurance racing is that absolutely anything can happen!! Much more unpredictable than sprinting.

Stephen (ASRA Team Challenge - Team SSDI/Compost, CMRA Endurance SSCE - Wilkins X Racing Team)
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Tony's analogy is spot on. I prefer to endurance race at tracks or on bikes that I'm not familiar with. I've found that running an endurance race on the Friday prepared me well for the sprint races - that's if I have anything left in the tank for Sat & Sunday.
Last year we came in 2nd place overall on an sv650 running the ASRA Team Challenge. We lead the pts race until the 2nd to last race @ VIR where the eventually winners smoked us. It was an amazing year given that ether of us had ever endurances before, that the old built SV held up, that we managed to bring in 3 other riders and two other bikes (mine and a friend's bike in DC) at different times. We learned a ton and were arguably very lucky to get that close.
This year I decided to start my own team "wilkins x racing" on an SS R6 bought in Austin. The first round, we benefitted from attrition - out of 9 teams, 5 crashed out in horrible conditions (wet & cold) - we managed to keep it up on one set of tires finishing 3rd. The second race we finished 7th out of 9 @ TWS (Texas World Speedway) getting biten by a broken exhaust hanger. Since then I've been riding for another SV team out of Chicago and we finished dead last @ Road America - broken intake valve in rear cylinder and a slow team owner. The team crashed out in third place @ Blackhawk farms two weeks ago. Our next race will be Topeka in July.
I'm planning to bring the R6 back from Chicago to do the last 2-3 CMRA rounds...
Cool thing about endurance racing is that absolutely anything can happen!! Much more unpredictable than sprinting.

Stephen (ASRA Team Challenge - Team SSDI/Compost, CMRA Endurance SSCE - Wilkins X Racing Team)

Good Luck, . It was fun racing with ya'll!
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
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eagle canyon. He's all healed up but his outlook on racing is not the same.
thats what I meant
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:54 PM   #18
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I don't much but what I do know is that noone remembers who won the fkn marathon at the olympics..but they remember who was billed as the fastest man in the world. And that was from a sprint.

Never enduranced but the 3 sprints I did....aint nothin like riding on the edge for 12 or so minutes.

Better than any dope out there.

I'd like to do some endurance tho..mainly to learn the track. If I like it...well..then I need 3 other fat to come join me. :
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:07 PM   #19
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...well..then I need 3 other fat to come join me. :
Sofa King Huge race team?
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:24 AM   #20
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I don't much but what I do know is that noone remembers who won the fkn marathon at the olympics..but they remember who was billed as the fastest man in the world. And that was from a sprint.

Never enduranced but the 3 sprints I did....aint nothin like riding on the edge for 12 or so minutes.

Better than any dope out there.

I'd like to do some endurance tho..mainly to learn the track. If I like it...well..then I need 3 other fat to come join me. :
trust me....there is glory in both types of racing. although sprint racing the glory is more abundant for oneself.

i never thought i'd like endurance racing, but it is a freakin blast....and it sure does beat sitting around all day waiting for the saturday afternoon practice (which usually doesn't give you much). it's an adrenaline rush ALL weekend long with endurance racing.
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