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Old 05-31-2009, 07:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matemike View Post
def come do a trackday...you can go at your own pace and you will gain confidence in your tires, cornering and braking skills...IMO, I think hitting up a td in the novice level is a lot safer than dumping the clutch trying to whoolie for the first time...


besides, a wise man once told me that all stunters crash, it's part of the learning process...just in case you go that route
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:13 PM   #22
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who ever said learning to stunt makes you a better overall rider is full of .


look... i learned to stunt right away after getting into street bikes...

see video evidence...



and now i'm trying to start racing and i cant get the whole dragging my knee thing..

see picture evidence below.

Does stunting make for better riders?



moral of my story..

Yes. the answer to your question is yes.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:17 PM   #23
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btw. my knee is further from the ground than my stator case.



and what Prodigy said to begin with was a great answer also.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:26 PM   #24
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i think that knowing the MACHINE aspect from stunting definitely helps, but as for the street issues, with the danger and tasks at hand, i have a hard time choosing a yea, or nea on it. you definitely learn modular input/control for throttle, brake, steering, balance/counterbalance, along with other important factors.

but concerning the question at hand, it very generic, without specific input as to which direction it could be handled. so again, it can be YES or NO, and argued a long time. i see it coming down to TWO factors.

1. technical knowledge

2. maturity in usage/implementation

anything technically gained in that scope will always improve overall skill, but maturity in how and where you use it can backfire against you, or how others around you perceive it compared to status quo.

"better rider" (to me) means adding in the maturity to use said knowledge at appropriate time, and place. again, largely debatable!

for me artistically its TEH .t! a motorized version of "flatland" bmx which i used to do extensively. I plan on carrying that over to M/C's. but my maturity in where and when i use it begs to be asked :P
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:34 PM   #25
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you seem to be assuming that all stunt riders do wheelies in heavy traffic. this is not true. most true stunt riders. not swuids doing power wheelies wont stunt on the street unless the situation is right. like being bored on the ride home from work and finally get on a vacant street coming into your neighborhood. maybe they would do a little slow wheelie. the only people doing immature riding on the freeway is someone who has no respect for the road and themselves. ive been on the street since i was 15. anyone with common since knows the does and donts of the road. stunter or not
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:36 PM   #26
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In a dangerous situation on the street where the rider has to brake aggressively, swerve, or perform any other type of avoidance maneuver, my money is on the stunter over a street rider every time.

Their balance, throttle, and brake control is phenomenal. Further, I believe they can feel the limits of adhesion much better than an average rider.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:20 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassik View Post
you seem to be assuming that all stunt riders do wheelies in heavy traffic.
reading too much into it. dont take it personally. i havent insinuated anything like. i stated MY maturity when it comes to learning stunting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klassik View Post
this is not true. most true stunt riders. not squids doing power wheelies wont stunt on the street unless the situation is right. like being BORED on the ride home from work and finally get on a vacant street coming into your neighborhood.
most accidents happen less than 2 miles from home. what "was" an empty street, can quickly become an accident with a left hand turning car, children playing, or random mishap in someones driveway, that extends to the street. the "empty street" is an illusion. hence most accidents, from lack of concentration and awareness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klassik View Post
maybe they would do a little slow wheelie.
slow wheelie, fast wheelie, or stoppie..it is still in a public road that is not closed off. see above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klassik View Post
the only people doing immature riding on the freeway is someone who has NO REPSECT FOR THE ROAD AND THEMSELVES.
see the above quotes for contradictory answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by klassik View Post
ive been on the street since i was 15. anyone with common since knows the do's and donts of the road. stunter or not
age does not reflect common sense. maturity does within that age, but not age in, of, or by itself. but also knowing "common sense" does not mean one chooses to use it.

again, i am ALL UP FOR STUNTING. i have nothing against it. but some things can be patterned thru repetition. this can cause the illusion of "control" until one gets outside of the personal experience.

for example:

I FLY radio control helicopters. there is an extreme sport to it called 3D SMACKDOWN flying. most newbies to RC helicopters want to fly this particular way. the problem is that they do not learn the basics, and then all aspects of FLYING, the just learn the "flying by ROTE"technique stick bangings to perform a 3D trick. the repetition of stick movements to perform said tricks...(just like memorizing "combo moves" on a joystick for a fighting game) when you get this novice pilot to perform a true FLYING CIRCUIT, most cant control the helicopter nose in, or side in, and crash very shortly. they cant fly a helicopter in a true "SCALE" fashion. like a real helicopter. they learned the TRICKS of the trade, without learning THE TRADE itself.

but the underlying statement is this..

i am ALL FOR STUNTING. it is NOT the stunting itself, it is the egos that are dangerous. not the stunting on its own. it takes one bad ego and the decisions of ... to ruin it for many others. but that is with ANY SPORT. football, dragracing, bowling, wrestling...

but you have to take everything said with a grain of salt..even me. after all this IS MOTOHOUSTON ... a squid filled net with maybe one or two real kingfish, and possibly a few sharks. (and yes I am a said squid.)
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:04 PM   #28
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we should call them.... solve this question. but my 2cents stunters rule ya know it

mythbusters
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:04 PM   #29
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i know there are guys on bikes that are as comfortable riding there bikes as they are walking. Stunters especially. Not saying other riders aren't. But just to state a point, stunters have to be comfortable with their machines and knowing exactly what they are going to do. Brake control whether it's front or back, throttle control or whatever. That much bike control would help out in just about any situation on the streets because it's all about being comfortable with your bike.

I don't consider myself a stunter. But i do stunt my fiddy and do love wheelies and stoppies on my big bikes i've had. This topic isnt about being a safer rider IMO but rather being comfortable and confident and in control of your bike and stunters in general fall into that catagory. Just my 2 cents.
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Muhammad.........Nostradamus..........Kdog
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:57 PM   #30
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I think the title of this thread should have been "Dose riding dirt bikes make you a better rider?"
From what I read Claton used to race dirt and so did Klassic.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
reading too much into it. dont take it personally. i havent insinuated anything like. i stated MY maturity when it comes to learning stunting.



most accidents happen less than 2 miles from home. what "was" an empty street, can quickly become an accident with a left hand turning car, children playing, or random mishap in someones driveway, that extends to the street. the "empty street" is an illusion. hence most accidents, from lack of concentration and awareness.



slow wheelie, fast wheelie, or stoppie..it is still in a public road that is not closed off. see above.



see the above quotes for contradictory answers



age does not reflect common sense. maturity does within that age, but not age in, of, or by itself. but also knowing "common sense" does not mean one chooses to use it.

again, i am ALL UP FOR STUNTING. i have nothing against it. but some things can be patterned thru repetition. this can cause the illusion of "control" until one gets outside of the personal experience.

for example:

I FLY radio control helicopters. there is an extreme sport to it called 3D SMACKDOWN flying. most newbies to RC helicopters want to fly this particular way. the problem is that they do not learn the basics, and then all aspects of FLYING, the just learn the "flying by ROTE"technique stick bangings to perform a 3D trick. the repetition of stick movements to perform said tricks...(just like memorizing "combo moves" on a joystick for a fighting game) when you get this novice pilot to perform a true FLYING CIRCUIT, most cant control the helicopter nose in, or side in, and crash very shortly. they cant fly a helicopter in a true "SCALE" fashion. like a real helicopter. they learned the TRICKS of the trade, without learning THE TRADE itself.

but the underlying statement is this..

i am ALL FOR STUNTING. it is NOT the stunting itself, it is the egos that are dangerous. not the stunting on its own. it takes one bad ego and the decisions of ... to ruin it for many others. but that is with ANY SPORT. football, dragracing, bowling, wrestling...

but you have to take everything said with a grain of salt..even me. after all this IS MOTOHOUSTON ... a squid filled net with maybe one or two real kingfish, and possibly a few sharks. (and yes I am a said squid.)
i like freeway wheelies ..so what ????
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GABRIEL View Post
I think the title of this thread should have been "Dose riding dirt bikes make you a better rider?"
From what I read Claton used to race dirt and so did Klassic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave C View Post
fkn kdogg just started staring at me like i'm bout to jump off this bike and murder some dave c. i was thinkin ok lets see what i did to this man to make him hate me and how fast can i run
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
Muhammad.........Nostradamus..........Kdog
The cycle continues.
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
reading too much into it. dont take it personally. i havent insinuated anything like. i stated MY maturity when it comes to learning stunting.



most accidents happen less than 2 miles from home. what "was" an empty street, can quickly become an accident with a left hand turning car, children playing, or random mishap in someones driveway, that extends to the street. the "empty street" is an illusion. hence most accidents, from lack of concentration and awareness.



slow wheelie, fast wheelie, or stoppie..it is still in a public road that is not closed off. see above.



see the above quotes for contradictory answers



age does not reflect common sense. maturity does within that age, but not age in, of, or by itself. but also knowing "common sense" does not mean one chooses to use it.

again, i am ALL UP FOR STUNTING. i have nothing against it. but some things can be patterned thru repetition. this can cause the illusion of "control" until one gets outside of the personal experience.

for example:

I FLY radio control helicopters. there is an extreme sport to it called 3D SMACKDOWN flying. most newbies to RC helicopters want to fly this particular way. the problem is that they do not learn the basics, and then all aspects of FLYING, the just learn the "flying by ROTE"technique stick bangings to perform a 3D trick. the repetition of stick movements to perform said tricks...(just like memorizing "combo moves" on a joystick for a fighting game) when you get this novice pilot to perform a true FLYING CIRCUIT, most cant control the helicopter nose in, or side in, and crash very shortly. they cant fly a helicopter in a true "SCALE" fashion. like a real helicopter. they learned the TRICKS of the trade, without learning THE TRADE itself.

but the underlying statement is this..

i am ALL FOR STUNTING. it is NOT the stunting itself, it is the egos that are dangerous. not the stunting on its own. it takes one bad ego and the decisions of ... to ruin it for many others. but that is with ANY SPORT. football, dragracing, bowling, wrestling...

but you have to take everything said with a grain of salt..even me. after all this IS MOTOHOUSTON ... a squid filled net with maybe one or two real kingfish, and possibly a few sharks. (and yes I am a said squid.)
man where i live when i mean there are no cars i mean there a re no cars and no houses and nothing but cows i live in rosharon. google map that litle place
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GABRIEL View Post
I think the title of this thread should have been "Dose riding dirt bikes make you a better rider?"
From what I read Clayton used to race dirt and so did Klassic.
another good point. but still even dirt doesnt sharpen your brake and throttle control near as good as stunting.


I've raced dirt (was never great, but decent), I've hit my shoulder on 12" tall road cones on the track and kept up with some of the better half of the CMRA/CCS racers (or atleast matched their pace), and i've put in countless hours at the lot. so take my advice for what you think it is worth.

someone mentioned something about crashing if you try to stunt. everyone crashes no matter what they do. there have been countless crashes in the novice sessions of trackdays, countless crashes at the stunt lot, and people die every day in crashes on the streets. it happens, no matter what.

now... my best .02 that i can think of right now for the guy that wants to know his bike the best, and have the knowledge to react in whatever situation may arise....

take your bike to a parking lot.
find out how hard you can brake before the back wheel comes up(something i learned on the track is to put your at the back of the seat when you are braking. i do this on EVERY corner i brake for on the track. it give me maximum weight on the end therefor preventing the end from coming off the ground.)
practice downshifting and braking hard while you are at it, find out and become comfortable with what gear to downshift to for maximum braking without sliding the end.

then practice accelerating, see how hard you can hammer the throttle before the front comes up more than a few inches. be smooth on the throttle and dont make sudden changes (increasing and decreasing, sudden increase will bring the front off the ground to fast, then you chop throttle and the front slams down and the engine brake combined and you are in a pickle. be smooth with your throttle changes) practice shifting up to be a smooth quick transition without breaking the back tire loose or bringing the front end off the ground more than a few inches.

now you know how to stop, and how to speed up. so its time to learn what your body does when you move around on the bike. for this you need a buddy that knows what they are doing. you need him to follow you and tell you what you are doing wrong/right. you need to be moving your back on emergency braking, you need to be moving your entire body to one side when you are turning (not just your , not just your head. keep your back straight and just shift your entire body to that side).

once you have mastered all of that then you can look into maybe fine tuning your riding by learning to stunt. while learning to stunt definitely makes you a better rider and just like someone else mentioned earlier, the things you learn will be instinctively transferred into your daily riding, and you will not have to think to use them, you can still learn alot and become a much better rider just by finding, knowing, and being comfortable with the limits of your bike and your ball sack.


Me, I know my bikes. I also know my ball sack. There for I think I am a good all around rider, probably top 1%.
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
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man where i live when i mean there are no cars i mean there a re no cars and no houses and nothing but cows i live in rosharon. google map that litle place
BFE man... dont worry I live more towards there as well
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:18 PM   #36
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my 2 cents is ..

SEAT TIME .... SEAT TIME .... SEAT TIME

if you take someone from any any division of of motorcycle riding and give them more seat time than someone else ... who do u think will be the better rider ?

if u look at clayton and klassik, they both have tons of seat time from dirt bikes, went to stunting picked it up easy. add dirt bike seat time + stunting seat time and clayton picks up the track quickier than most

over the years joe has put in TONS of time stunting his bikes ....

my honest opinion is its all about seat time ...
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:29 PM   #37
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stunting helps you know your bike and lowside and highside,



but i think i have a system for teaching people if they want to learn..look at clayton and kevin.

and yes them coming from dirt made it easier for me to just tell them" hey try this" and they listen...unlike alot of other riders... I really like riding with people that will try on the fly...people like that i know are Joe, Kevin, Clayton, Jermey(boltz) and myself.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:30 PM   #38
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oh and about seat time...im not so sure..it's how fast you can develope a relationship with your bike, ie getting to know idle, how your back brake feels and reacts, same with hand brake.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:33 PM   #39
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seats time dog

odds of someone not riding a bike and having but trying to stunt being good as opposed to :

a kid who rode dirt bikes for 5 years

who will pick up riding better ?
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:38 PM   #40
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yeah but kevin learned to ride in the dirt...alot different for traction, and stuff two different things...and they are used to jumping,...not doing 12 o' clocks
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