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Old 06-01-2009, 04:55 PM   #61
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This thread went to . . . .
The new design of the General Lee sure looks sweet though!
I'd pimp it!
Nice.
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
The war wasnt about slavery.

There were blacks who fought alongside whites in the Confederate army - and not as slaves either.

It wasn't just rich white men who owned slaves. It was also rich black men, rich white women and rich black women.

Racism is actually more entrenched in the Democrat party rather than the Republican party. It was actually the Republicans who pushed the abolitionist movement.

But hey - you go on being stupid. That's your right as an American.
There were VERY few black Confederates, not until the last few weeks of the war was it even LEGAL for a black man to serve. In the last weeks a couple of small groups of black Confederates were recruited, hardly the "many" that you refer to.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:05 PM   #63
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a little article i found

http://www.usapresidentmccain.com/20...s-it-mean.html
I am from the South and I am proud of where I am from. My mom's side of the family is from the North, and I am very proud of that as well. To me this flag is an outward symbol of my southern pride and rebellion. The only flag I fly in my yard is the Clemson University flag, and that's because Clemson is the best and you just have to except it. I do think the Confederate Flag should be flown at the State House, because it is a big part of South Carolina history that many Southerners gave their lives for. If the Civil war was today and Southerns where taking up arms to bring back slavery, I would have no part in it! Slavery is and was wrong no matter the color of your skin. However, slavery was not the only reason for the Civil war just the main one. The North in retrospect was as raciest as the South in the 1850 & 1860s. Colored people where not even allowed in some Northern States. Many southerners saw the Union as a tyrant invading their homes and land. If you put yourself in this situation, I believe most people will agree with me when I say I would fight to fend off invasion of my home.



So, to me this flag means I am from the Southern part of the United States of America. "We won't be pushed around," is another way it can be interpreted. I think the flag is appealing and neat looking if nothing else. On the other hand I can understand why it is sometimes seen as a hate symbol, but I don't condone its use in such a way. Groups who use this flag as a hate symbol don't deserve to fly it or any symbol. They deserve a new flag with representing the lack of brain cells and idiocy. Please comment on what you think the Flag means and why! Any comments that are trash, purposely offensive, or just plain ignorant will not be tolerated!
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:06 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolseen View Post
There were VERY few black Confederates, not until the last few weeks of the war was it even LEGAL for a black man to serve. In the last weeks a couple of small groups of black Confederates were recruited, hardly the "many" that you refer to.
if you know that then, you should aslo know the confederacy wasn't fighting for slavery for slavery's sake. slavery was what made their economy work. without indentured servants and slaves they would have been unable to profit as farmers. the south's entire economy would have collapsed because their cash crops would then be unsustainable as marketable products, the cost to till /harvest them would have been too great. yes, there was a lot of hate, and even worse spread all through the south, but they didn't keep slaves just to have slaves. they kept them because they needed them. it doesn't make it any more right, but it was done out of necessity and convenience. again, doesn't make it right, just, fair, or anything but incredibly wrong.

HOWEVER, the flag in question, IS NOT THE FLAG OF THE CONFEDERACY. it was designed nearly 60 years later.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:15 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jolseen View Post
I'm the dumbass because I don't agree with a bunch neocons and their traitorous and racist flag?
No, you're a dumbass because you dont know what the **** you're talking about and having the temerity to insult others based upon your own ignorance.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:22 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolseen View Post
There were VERY few black Confederates, not until the last few weeks of the war was it even LEGAL for a black man to serve. In the last weeks a couple of small groups of black Confederates were recruited, hardly the "many" that you refer to.
Bzzt - wrong again.

There were many slaves who were permitted to serve towards the end of the war. That is quite different.

There were free blacks who fought right alongside free whites.

The South was not near as racist as they are portrayed - and in fact, still isn't. At the time, it was actually far more accepting of integration than the North.

I've always found it ironic that the movie Glory made such a big deal out of the separate Union troops, yet Hollywood ignored the story of blacks who fought for the South. , some fought under the command of none other than Nathan Bedford Forrest. You may remember him as the founder of the KKK.

Seriously son, you don't know half of what you THINK you do.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:27 PM   #67
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...the 'yanks' were SOO honorable right Jol?

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Harriet Tubman believed that she was in the employ of the U.S. Army. When she received her first paycheck, she spent it to build a place where freed black women could earn a living doing laundry for the soldiers. But then she wasn't paid regularly again, and wasn't given the military rations she believed she was entitled to. She was paid only a total of $200 in three years of service. She supported herself and her work by selling baked goods and root beer which she worked on after her work duties were complete.

After the war was over, she was never paid her back military pay, and when she applied for a pension, her application was denied. Secretary of State William Seward, Colonel T. W. Higginson, and General Rufus supported her claim, but it was denied. Harriet Tubman did eventually receive a pension -- but as the widow of a soldier, her second husband.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:32 PM   #68
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...the 'yanks' were SOO honorable right Jol?
Meh - don't waste your time. You could bring that kind of person back in time and let him see for himself and he STILL wouldn't believe it.

What's funny is, even when I was in elementary school way back in the 1970s, they still taught that slavery was not the driving force behind the Civil War, and that not all blacks were slaves.

I dont know when things changed...
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:06 PM   #69
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Things haven't changed, some people are blind and can't accept that history actually happened, and they don't get to interpret it in their own way.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:12 PM   #70
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Because it stands for our ability to at least fight for something else- to show that we will not blindly follow.

You must not be from the South?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:23 PM   #71
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User is banned

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Old 06-02-2009, 04:38 PM   #72
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I'm not disputing that the Civil War had factors other than slavery (it was really more about money than anything else; like most wars) but it was the behavior of the southern people in general after the war that has earned them and their symbol their due infamy. I know I'm generalizing and that there are individuals who are open minded and tolerant in the south as well but history speaks for itself. The fact that the states that fly their confederate flags with pride also hung their black people with just as much pride as long as the law would allow them to (and beyond that) is what has tainted any honor that those flags might have held in the past.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:48 PM   #73
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I'm not a south hater. Many southerners are sweet, good people, and I find some aspects of southern culture interesting. But I cringe when I see a confederate flag. It reminds me of the treasonous, un-american plantation owners who convinced poor whites that fighting their fight was in their best interest. It also reminds me of the terrorist KKK who lynched blacks and tried to oppress them in the name of "freedom". (again, freedom for whites only). I think of the convictions that were behind murders in Mississippi and bombings in Alabama churches, and firehoses and dogs in Selma, just because blacks wanted to be treated like humans and to be able to have a say about their future.

As far as a symbol of southern heritage and culture? That's is true. But to me it's a symbol of the dark side of the south. There are so many better symbols. Like Magnolias, Spanish Moss, southern food, music, architecture, literature, accents (yes, I LIKE southern accents!) and basic courtesy when people say "sir", "ma'am and refer to ladies as "Miss ______" This is what I like to think of when I think of the south. Not the things that the Confederate Flag symbolizes. The south is better than that
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:08 PM   #74
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:-) So should we also then point out the wrongs comitted under the 'US' flag, during this era.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:31 PM   #75
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Nothing wrong with people of color sporting a confederate flag... Heritage not Hate!
at that time when the flag was being flown, the north was just as racist as the south, so while i do understand this point of view, many people still today associate the stars and bars with white supremacy.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:54 PM   #76
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not being racist but id expect a black guy to step out of that car... (color, tint, rims), not some confederate flag waiving redneck, like i assume he is based on his plate.. im just sayin...
Yes the driver is a black guy. I saw this car and the driver. On the side it says "GENERAL LEE" in capital letters.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:09 PM   #77
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Yes the driver is a black guy. I saw this car and the driver. On the side it says "GENERAL LEE" in capital letters.
might have been a different car unles he got graphics put on. and i think some of the stuff you guys are saying is funny. i guess since we live in the southern most state when people from up north say they are from the south it makes me laugh considering they really arent from the south. i didnt pay much attn in history so i cant contribute to you guys' arguments.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:09 AM   #78
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Maybe you should read the history on BOTH sides of the equation. I suggest you pick up A Narrative on the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave by Frederick Douglass.
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