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Old 05-12-2009, 01:34 PM   #21
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Can you expand further on this if you don't mind?
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Can you expand further on this if you don't mind?
It's my disclaimer in case someone wants to get into a debate on MotoGP history, and the extent to which riders have evolved relative to changes in the Championship.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:35 PM   #23
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Let's See, he had a big crash in practice before the Qatar race, got torpedoed in Japan, (Both of which had sketchy weather in practice) and had some set up issues in Spain.

Yeah, I guess you're right, he should have levitated above the bike that torpedoed him in Japan, and magically rode around problems with the bike at a track that Ducati has had problems at no matter who was riding....He should just throw in the towel... I guess since Valentino didn't win the championships in 2006 and 2007 he should have hung it up as well... Nice logic.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWidow View Post
Its the GP chassis that the NSR50 (Age 4-7), RS125 (Age 8-12), RS250 (Age 12-16) have in common.
I'm imagining that these "GP chassis" have absolutely nothing in common with the prototype chassis that underpins a motoGP bike. So I'm still not following you. I can see 125GP and 250GP riders having more track experience, but several riders (Ben Spies?) have proved that you can still have good results on tracks you've never seen.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:36 PM   #25
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Let's See, he had a big crash in practice before the Qatar race, got torpedoed in Japan, (Both of which had sketchy weather in practice) and had some set up issues in Spain.

Yeah, I guess you're right, he should have levitated above the bike that torpedoed him in Japan, and magically rode around problems with the bike at a track that Ducati has had problems at no matter who was riding....He should just throw in the towel... I guess since Valentino didn't win the championships in 2006 and 2007 he should have hung it up as well... Nice logic.
Are you a nicky fan by chance?????
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I'm imagining that these "GP chassis" have absolutely nothing in common with the prototype chassis that underpins a motoGP bike. So I'm still not following you. I can see 125GP and 250GP riders having more track experience, but several riders (Ben Spies?) have proved that you can still have good results on tracks you've never seen.
125GP and 250GP machines are infinitely more adjustable (and reactive/sensitive too) than your average production based machine, setting them up requires skills that make understanding the prototype motogp bikes slightly easier although the electronic packages are hugely different.

typically your average 125/250gp rider will have learnt the tracks, become known in the paddock and mastered the art of extreme corner speed the cornerstone of the modern day 800!
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #27
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Are you a nicky fan by chance?????
I am a fan, but I am not blind. And you cannot discount those factors in his performance this year.. Is he going to be dominant, probably not, can he return to decent results I think so.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #28
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I am a fan, but I am not blind. And you cannot discount those factors in his performance this year.. Is he going to be dominant, probably not, can he return to decent results I think so.
like i said in my opening post, i hope so too
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:47 PM   #29
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It's my disclaimer in case someone wants to get into a debate on MotoGP history, and the extent to which riders have evolved relative to changes in the Championship.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumper View Post
Let's See, he had a big crash in practice before the Qatar race, got torpedoed in Japan, (Both of which had sketchy weather in practice) and had some set up issues in Spain.

Yeah, I guess you're right, he should have levitated above the bike that torpedoed him in Japan, and magically rode around problems with the bike at a track that Ducati has had problems at no matter who was riding....He should just throw in the towel... I guess since Valentino didn't win the championships in 2006 and 2007 he should have hung it up as well... Nice logic.
I'm sorry. Last I checked this was the "top" level of 2 wheels. I think just like Hayden every other rider is/should be at a level to be able to cope/comprehend/convey/work with his team/bike to ride around the "sketchy weather".

Puhleeez don't even mention Valentino Rossi and Hayden in the same sentence!

Valentino Rossi:
- fighting against all odds, machinery, luck, problems.
Still manages to win championships.

Nicky Hayden:
- Best bike of 2006 (the Honda Repsol #1 bike)
Managed to win one of the most WEAKEST championships of all time! Winning only 2-3 (I'm pretty sure its 2) individual rounds! Building upto his Overall Championship!

Competition was weak! Mechanical issues, team miscommunication, crashing due to other riders - blah blah...

Oh and when Hayden DID win those 2 ROUNDs, in one round Rossi had a DNF due to tires and in one round he crashed and did not even finish top 10.

LOL!
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWidow View Post
I'm sorry. Last I checked this was the "top" level of 2 wheels. I think just like Hayden every other rider is/should be at a level to be able to cope/comprehend/convey/work with his team/bike to ride around the "sketchy weather".

Puhleeez don't even mention Valentino Rossi and Hayden in the same sentence!

Valentino Rossi:
- fighting against all odds, machinery, luck, problems.
Still manages to win championships.

Nicky Hayden:
- Best bike of 2006 (the Honda Repsol #1 bike)
Managed to win one of the most WEAKEST championships of all time! Winning only 2-3 (I'm pretty sure its 2) individual rounds! Building upto his Overall Championship!

Competition was weak! Mechanical issues, team miscommunication, crashing due to other riders - blah blah...

Oh and when Hayden DID win those 2 ROUNDs, in one round Rossi had a DNF due to tires and in one round he crashed and did not even finish top 10.

LOL!
Well I guess thats one way of looking at things.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:51 PM   #32
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Generally speaking I think Nicky's struggles has more to do w/ the riding style needed fore the 800s. It's well know that due to his dirt-tracking upbringing, that he prefers a more of a point and shoot corner style, with the back end moving around alot. The 800s require more of a 250-like riding style (greater corner entry speed as an example). Guys who rode liter-bikes in AMA/WSBK made the transition to a 990 GP bike better than to the 800 bikes. Look at Bayliss. He won the 2007 Valencia Moto GP race a week after he wrapped up the WSBK title and went out and won the GP race on a 990. 1 race, 1 win. I also think Nicky would fare better if traction control was limited/removed.

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be successful in WSBK or AMA back on a big liter bike.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Well I guess thats one way of looking at things.
Okay I'll be fair and say something nice for Hayden since I did own his Repsol replica 1000rr (bike by the way)

He DID manage to finish top 5 80% of those races he attended in MotoGP 2006.

He was the most consistent rider of the group (thank to Stoner/Randy taking out Rossi/Gibernau) early on.

My only point is he's a great consistent rider, but that's not what MotoGP is about, MotoGP is not an endurance race. Yes consistency will help but you have to be doggone hungry and podium every fricken race if not 1st - to win the overall championships.

That's Rossi caliber.

I know I sound harsh, and most of you disagree.. but look at Kenny Roberts JR. right now, that's where Hayden is going to be in 2 years.

Then you all can buy me drinks ...
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:55 PM   #34
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Here's a sentence; "MotoGP champions Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi."

I love the Rossi fans, When he isn't winning it all it's all the bike's tires or someone else's fault, when it's anyone else with the same issues, obviously they can't ride...LOL
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdrider View Post
Generally speaking I think Nicky's struggles has more to do w/ the riding style needed fore the 800s. It's well know that due to his dirt-tracking upbringing, that he prefers a more of a point and shoot corner style, with the back end moving around alot. The 800s require more of a 250-like riding style (greater corner entry speed as an example). Guys who rode liter-bikes in AMA/WSBK made the transition to a 990 GP bike better than to the 800 bikes. Look at Bayliss. He won the 2007 Valencia Moto GP race a week after he wrapped up the WSBK title and went out and won the GP race on a 990. 1 race, 1 win. I also think Nicky would fare better if traction control was limited/removed.

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be successful in WSBK or AMA back on a big liter bike.
Yep. Hence my talk about the "Evolution/Era" of new riding not helping Hayden.

You know who else suffered greatly from this Evolution? Toni Elias & Garry McCoy.

If it were'nt for all the new gadgets and traction control, I'm sure both of these riders would be still around and giving everyone helll...
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Oh and when Hayden DID win those 2 ROUNDs, in one round Rossi had a DNF due to tires and in one round he crashed and did not even finish top 10.
Let's not turn this into a discussion about whther or not he "deserved" to win the 07 championship. BUT, I fail to see how you can call another riders crash another rider's being given the championship. Rossi's crash in 2007 at Valencia had everything to do with him pushing because he HAD to finish 2 spots ahead of Nicky to win the championship. He was pushing and made a mistake that cost him the chamionship.

I'm sure you Rockets fans can relate. "The Lakers played like , no-showed, the other night, right?"

How about, "The Rockets played great and made the Lakers look like ."
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:58 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumper View Post
Here's a sentence; "MotoGP champions Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi."

I love the Rossi fans, When he isn't winning it all it's all the bike's tires or someone else's fault, when it's anyone else with the same issues, obviously they can't ride...LOL
Rossi >

Hayden >

:
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #38
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Rossi >

Hayden >

:
Ha ha ha Good one...
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdrider View Post
Let's not turn this into a discussion about whther or not he "deserved" to win the 07 championship. BUT, I fail to see how you can call another riders crash another rider's being given the championship. Rossi's crash in 2007 at Valencia had everything to do with him pushing because he HAD to finish 2 spots ahead of Nicky to win the championship. He was pushing and made a mistake that cost him the chamionship.

I'm sure you Rockets fans can relate. "The Lakers played like , no-showed, the other night, right?"

How about, "The Rockets played great and made the Lakers look like ."
I agree. And that's not what I'm suggesting.
I'm merely stating it was alot of LUCK in that corner of Hayden's that year.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Haydens (all of them) don't have that background, they are more of your dirt bike > motocross > 600cc > MotoGP background. Also with their riding styles the technology does NOT seem to work. Rather then learning to ride with it (John Hopkins/Casey Stoner) or around it (Valentino Rossi), he's always requested it NOT be put on or has always been "bityatching" about it.

Its a different Era of riding, and unforunately there is no place for him or his style in the direction the sport is currently moving.

I agree 100%... The 900's were more of a point and shoot type bike that suited his style. Since GP went back down the CC ladder. He is screwed no matter what you put underneath him...
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