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Old 05-12-2009, 07:07 AM   #21
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i didnt realize its been common practice yet for dealerships. I hadn't found any with nitrogen units yet.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaligoneTx View Post
i didnt realize its been common practice yet for dealerships. I hadn't found any with nitrogen units yet.
it hasn't seem to take of as intended, from what I've seen either.

OP, I wouldn't sweat the N in tires. Just get regular old air and you'll be fine.

If it's supposed to be less likely to seep out, how do you know without checking them?
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:48 AM   #23
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I understand the effects of Nitrogen, just saying it hasn't taken on.

In advanced riding I could see it being effective since heat doesn't effect expansion as much as air.

Still, I dont see a point in it. Runflat tires continue to lose air alot quicker then normal tires. For the convenience of not having a spare it seems silly to me. Our customers complain when their tires wear out prematurely. The owner manual requires air pressure checks every week.

I look at mine everytime I walk out to my car/bike etc but check the car every two weeks and bike every week.

Since everyone else runs air; I'll continue to do the same. Not sure if its still an issue but I was originally told before we shut down the idea of getting nitrogen at the shop, to not mix the two.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:52 AM   #24
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I went a-googlin'.... interesting discussions lol

Q: I just thought I'd remind everyone that nitrogen makes up like 75-78% of ambient air, so air verse nitrogen should make little or no difference.
A: Yes, nitrogen makes up most of the air -- about 78% as you point out. Think about this, though: if you fill your tires with air, the oxygen is more likely to permeate out of the tires before the nitrogen and over time you end up with a higher concentration of nitrogen. I have not checked this but it seems possible.
An additional point: not all air is of equal quality. Moisture, oil from the air compressor, and other pollutants can affect tire integrity

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...en-tires-.html
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:59 AM   #25
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lastly:

Nitrogen only would effuse (leak) out of a tire 1.2% slower than an 80-20 mixture.


but that said. I think back ten yrs ago when compressors weren't drained well and moisture in air lines were common. Mercedes wheels were commonly corroding(steel wheels w chrome.) We always had to put a bead sealer on the rim lips just so the tires wouldn't leak out overnight. Moisture is killer for metals.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:01 AM   #26
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I went a-googlin'.... interesting discussions lol

Q: I just thought I'd remind everyone that nitrogen makes up like 75-78% of ambient air, so air verse nitrogen should make little or no difference.
A: Yes, nitrogen makes up most of the air -- about 78% as you point out. Think about this, though: if you fill your tires with air, the oxygen is more likely to permeate out of the tires before the nitrogen and over time you end up with a higher concentration of nitrogen. I have not checked this but it seems possible.
An additional point: not all air is of equal quality. Moisture, oil from the air compressor, and other pollutants can affect tire integrity

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...en-tires-.html
Nitrogen is used in order eliminate water vapor from the tires. It's the water vapor that causes the dramatic pressure changes in tires as they heat.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:04 AM   #27
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i have nitrogen in the accord, they don't get low as quickly as reg. o2 does. got it from the dealership like that.

costco also does nitrogen
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:06 AM   #28
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So do you still run the same pressures as you would w air when on the track?

Someone mentioned earlier the denser nitrogen may make the tire feel different too; but since the measurement psi is force, it should react the same, right? Both gases are so close we aren't talking about a mass difference that is felt.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:09 AM   #29
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So do you still run the same pressures as you would w air when on the track?

Someone mentioned earlier the denser nitrogen may make the tire feel different too; but since the measurement psi is force, it should react the same, right? Both gases are so close we aren't talking about a mass difference that is felt.
Yes, you run the same pressures. If the tire has the same pressure, it's not going to feel different other than the tire pressure staying more consistent.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:09 AM   #30
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don't track the accord, but i've found in daily driving it doesn't gain as much A/P when driven vs O2
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:13 AM   #31
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:32 AM   #32
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:57 AM   #33
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its not "air escaping from the tires"(LEAKAGE) issue. what is going on is that the nitrogen is DRY GAS, it contains no water vapors. its the water(vapor) present, among a few other items that makes a tire lose air pressure, over temperature fluctuations. the nitrogen filled tire will loose (compress) less pressure, compared to an air filled tire over the same temperature drop.

i.e. nitrogen tire wont degrade as much as an air filled tire going from hot to cold temperatures.. fore example, a 24 hour "torture test" from a bike magazine, or endurance race that lasts into the night, where temps quickly degrade after the sun goes down.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #34
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For the price of the machines, I'm still arguing "not worth it"

that's all
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:19 AM   #35
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agreed. i think if you were doing some very calculated number crunching, i could understand, but for just "hey joe, lets go ride"..not really worth it.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:49 AM   #36
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Please don't compare N2 vs. O2 for this discussion. It is N2 vs. air. O2 would be really bad to put in tires (oxygen leg humps almost everything). You also cannot breath pure O2 as the aforementioned leg humping of your alveoli would quickly and painfully degrade in your lungs.
Peace and carry on.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:05 AM   #37
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By trade, I am a master pneumatics tech. I have put -80 dewpoint compressed air in tires. That air is about as dry as you can get. Tires still grow in pressure. Oxygen and CO2 is your thermal expansion more than likely, not water in the air. Definately CO2 expands in heat.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:08 AM   #38
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Please don't compare N2 vs. O2 for this discussion. It is N2 vs. air. O2 would be really bad to put in tires (oxygen leg humps almost everything). You also cannot breath pure O2 as the aforementioned leg humping of your alveoli would quickly and painfully degrade in your lungs.
Peace and carry on.
Oh, yeah, sorry thanks for the clarification
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:19 AM   #39
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By trade, I am a master pneumatics tech. I have put -80 dewpoint compressed air in tires. That air is about as dry as you can get. Tires still grow in pressure. Oxygen and CO2 is your thermal expansion more than likely, not water in the air. Definately CO2 expands in heat.
Any gas is going to expand with heat. pv=nrt, right? Comparing nitrogen to air from a compressor without a line dryer, the tires with the nitrogen with expand less with the heat increase. There is a reason that nitrogen is used by so many race teams.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #40
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Any gas is going to expand with heat. pv=nrt, right? Comparing nitrogen to air from a compressor without a line dryer, the tires with the nitrogen with expand less with the heat increase. There is a reason that nitrogen is used by so many race teams.
You are correct. Nitrogen is very stable. Now add oxygen to nitrogen and you have an expansive gas, like Nitrous Oxide.
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