MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 05-10-2009, 04:00 PM   #1
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






Timing or tensioner? issue noise resonation.

I just put a new head on my 929 and am hearing a noise as if something was loose slapping around or hitting to be honest I doubt its the tensioner since the tensioner worked right before, unless seizing the head could have damaged it. The noise is loud but not unruly kinda like a rod knock on a car.... could the noise be from my timing being off and the engine firing out the unclosed valves. The bike idles from like 1200 then drops to 600 like its loping back and forth very even and doesnt die. Also a bad tensioner could through timing correct? Taking any advice on what could have gone wrong on a head install.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cam chain tensioner problem HELP! wesleh General Discussion (Moto Related) 4 10-26-2011 11:56 PM
ZX14 APE Tensioner Coast Rider General Discussion (Moto Related) 6 10-15-2009 08:39 AM
Gixxer Cam Chain Tensioner ? 1slocbr Taking it to the Track 5 12-12-2008 12:42 PM
cam chain tensioner. jetchanic How To's and Q & A's 6 05-26-2006 10:02 AM
cam chain tensioner witchdoctor575 General Discussion (Moto Related) 5 02-26-2006 09:09 PM
Advertisement
Old 05-10-2009, 04:07 PM   #2
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





tough call to diagnose over the net. tensioners shouldn't affect timing unless they get so weak they allow the motor to jump time. sound to me like there might be a timing issue or something else going on.
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:08 PM   #3
CaligoneTx
Forest Gnome Tour Guide
 
CaligoneTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Valhalla
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 21,558

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Triumph 675r
Ducati 748
Hyosungs (250r + 650r)
Honda 900rr
Suzuki Busa1300r (+2 bikes)






Send a message via AIM to CaligoneTx Send a message via Yahoo to CaligoneTx
Timing is easy to get off; make sure the slack is on the tensioner side.

The loping could be caused by a lean condition from unmetered air leaks; especially if you snap the throttle and the bike doesn't return to idle. Throttle misalignment can also be a culprit.

If you only did work to the head, focus on that. The head seized? while running? that would cause ALOT of stress on that chain since the crank is spinning the cams. If it was a poor lubrication issue there could be damage to the head as well. Was everything replaced? Cams and all?

Lastly is the tensioner hydraulic or mechanical? It would need to fill and pressurize up if not soaked in oil before installing(shouldn't take long after starting.)
__________________
triumphsig
CaligoneTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:11 PM   #4
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






Anybody capable of hearing and diagnosing let me know i will load it up and bring it by would to drop the block then not be able to locate the issue, when I timed it according to the diagram it showed left cam 9 o clock and right 3 o clock the right one though was a little bit not flush with the head like the diagram showed and one tooth up or down was too much.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:19 PM   #5
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






head alone was replaced and two valves and head gasket. A phillips head bit was dropped through the velocity stack i located it in the piston hole. Two valves were extremely bent. the bikes supposedly seized after a loud noise was emanating from it... im guessing the bit.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:23 PM   #6
CaligoneTx
Forest Gnome Tour Guide
 
CaligoneTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Valhalla
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 21,558

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Triumph 675r
Ducati 748
Hyosungs (250r + 650r)
Honda 900rr
Suzuki Busa1300r (+2 bikes)






Send a message via AIM to CaligoneTx Send a message via Yahoo to CaligoneTx
How much room is there w that piston at TDC? If the bit didn't clear all the way you may have damaged the rod itself by not allowing it to compress the bit. That would cause a knock from clearance of the rod around the crank.
__________________
triumphsig
CaligoneTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:26 PM   #7
CaligoneTx
Forest Gnome Tour Guide
 
CaligoneTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Valhalla
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 21,558

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Triumph 675r
Ducati 748
Hyosungs (250r + 650r)
Honda 900rr
Suzuki Busa1300r (+2 bikes)






Send a message via AIM to CaligoneTx Send a message via Yahoo to CaligoneTx
1. If the noise is rotational/rythmatic and at the speed of the engine, it is in the lower end. If the noise is at half speed, its in the cams. The piston moves 2:1 compared to the cams.

2. You can try to disconnect the spark plug or injector to kill the cylinder of the cylinder that was damage. The engine will run harsher since you killed 25% of the powerband, but you also stopped the power stroke of the cylinder; meaning the noise would be lighter or go away since the piston isnt forcing the rod down through a power stroke, rather the piston/rod are being pulled around by the other cylinders.

If the noise lightens or goes away by killing that cylinder, sounds like you have lower engine issues.
__________________
triumphsig
CaligoneTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 06:25 PM   #8
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






The rpms seem rythmatic like a aggressive cam lobing, but the noise seems faster, maybe two ticks to each lobe kinda like your 2 to one ratio. But i just removed the plug wire off the issue hole and restarted it it did seem quieter but still ticking, im about to pull one off another hole to make sure the drop in power is just not causing the quieter noise, if thats possible.... just verifying the diagnosis. (before head install) Also I rotated the motor with the head off and all the pistons seemed to go to the same height I wanted to see if it spun smoothly at the time.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 06:26 PM   #9
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






I really appreciate the help too.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 07:41 PM   #10
CaligoneTx
Forest Gnome Tour Guide
 
CaligoneTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Valhalla
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 21,558

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Triumph 675r
Ducati 748
Hyosungs (250r + 650r)
Honda 900rr
Suzuki Busa1300r (+2 bikes)






Send a message via AIM to CaligoneTx Send a message via Yahoo to CaligoneTx
Deck clearances(height of pistons) is a good start, but the bearings are simply a softer material then the rods/crank and can be compressed or damaged with a hard hit. W the rings in the piston there may be enough resistance to not be able to tell of a loose rod without being able to move it up and down. Plastic gauge is the best way to check, but you'll have to get to the caps.

Before jumping, see if you can verify if the noise is on the lower end vs top end. You can use a stephascope or simply a vacuum hose ran to your ear. Wherever the noise is most crisp is where it is likely coming from.

If it sounds like the top end still, check the valve adjustment and in extreme case make sure the valves were seated properly on install.

A compression or leakdown may not show a damaged rod bearing. Compression measures cylinder pressure and leakdown measures leak/where its leaking to.
__________________
triumphsig
CaligoneTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 07:49 PM   #11
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






Well the phillips bit gashed the head in a couple spots so yes at tdc i believe there wasnt enough height but i just went along unplugging each one just listening to the difference and there is def a difference on the piston hole that was damaged sounds like this got serious. off of listening i tried to just put a bar against it and its like i fell it tapping away at the top like a cam cap is loose but like i said with the piston not firing great sound difference.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 07:50 PM   #12
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






to be honest im not sure if rebuilding this bottom end would be worth it.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 07:56 PM   #13
CaligoneTx
Forest Gnome Tour Guide
 
CaligoneTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Valhalla
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 21,558

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Triumph 675r
Ducati 748
Hyosungs (250r + 650r)
Honda 900rr
Suzuki Busa1300r (+2 bikes)






Send a message via AIM to CaligoneTx Send a message via Yahoo to CaligoneTx
As you mentioned earlier, maybe someone w some experience can take a quick gander at it in your area just to make sure/verify its now a low end issue on the engine.

Anyone in the Alvin area?
__________________
triumphsig
CaligoneTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2009, 07:49 PM   #14
ddgtomahawk
Write my name! \/
 
ddgtomahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,493

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2016 R1
2001 Honda CBR929 RE
2005 Honda CBR600RR
2007 R6S






OK anybody I can take this bike to or a shop I can go up to to let them here it I can pay something.
__________________


Come here you little cake eating sieg heil .
ddgtomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy