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Old 05-13-2009, 03:33 PM   #61
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Whats so wrong with passing a law that could save a life??? In my opinion, a law like wearing a helmet that can prevent someone from dying is worth it. Of course there is always going to be someone who complains and gets upset just because they don't like being told what to do which is an entirely different issue. Just my .02 cents.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:39 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
I don't WANT to be protected from myself. Unlike some people, I am fully capable of making my own decisions.

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Originally Posted by T0mMyGun View Post
Whats so wrong with passing a law that could save a life??? In my opinion, a law like wearing a helmet that can prevent someone from dying is worth it. Of course there is always going to be someone who complains and gets upset just because they don't like being told what to do which is an entirely different issue. Just my .02 cents.


fully capable of making my own decisions = i dont like being told what to do.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:43 PM   #63
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fully capable of making my own decisions = i dont like being told what to do.
No, I dont like being told what to do. I have no problem admitting that. I'm an adult and I dont need some moron who just let go of his mommy's last week telling me that I need to be protected from myself.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you have anything constructive to add or did you just want to go back to pretending that you're superior because you bow down to anyone who stands up to you?
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:45 PM   #64
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Whats so wrong with passing a law that could save a life??? In my opinion, a law like wearing a helmet that can prevent someone from dying is worth it. Of course there is always going to be someone who complains and gets upset just because they don't like being told what to do which is an entirely different issue. Just my .02 cents.
Would you care to identify a SINGLE law which has EVER saved a SINGLE life?

Contrary to what the less independent thinkers among us want to believe, laws don't stop a thing. They only provide penalties for doing it after the fact.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
No, I dont like being told what to do. I have no problem admitting that. I'm an adult and I dont need some moron who just let go of his mommy's last week telling me that I need to be protected from myself.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you have anything constructive to add or did you just want to go back to pretending that you're superior because you bow down to anyone who stands up to you?
bow down? far from it and im sure with your attitude your one of the people that think the road belongs to you and will cut people off. but hey i can side iwth you on not being told what to do. i dont wear my seatbelt. it is lock in place and thrown over my shoulder. if i die then i die. but i am in a cage so i do have a line of defense between me and the outside world, that along with airbags i think ill be okay. but being on a bike you are so much more vulnerable. do i give a if you wear your helmet no. do what you please but will encourage you to ride with you. so on group rides do you show up without your helmet? they always state that you wear a lid jacket and gloves for your safety.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:58 PM   #66
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bow down? far from it and im sure with your attitude your one of the people that think the road belongs to you and will cut people off. but hey i can side iwth you on not being told what to do. i dont wear my seatbelt. it is lock in place and thrown over my shoulder. if i die then i die. but i am in a cage so i do have a line of defense between me and the outside world, that along with airbags i think ill be okay. but being on a bike you are so much more vulnerable. do i give a if you wear your helmet no. do what you please but will encourage you to ride with you. so on group rides do you show up without your helmet? they always state that you wear a lid jacket and gloves for your safety.
Then perhaps I misunderstood your post. It certainly appeared you were implying that those who don't like to be told what to do are the ones with the problem.

Do i wear one? About 50/50 honestly. Do i wear a seatbelt? Oddly - i dont even move the car out of the driveway without one. These are my choices.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:03 PM   #67
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:05 PM   #68
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Perhaps - we all have our own ways of making a decision.

I find your logic of riding a track bike with turn signals to be questionable, but that is YOUR choice. I may disagree, but I have no right to prevent you from making that choice.

Logic like, "a helmet will break your neck in a crash" is pretty funny.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:10 PM   #69
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Would you care to identify a SINGLE law which has EVER saved a SINGLE life?

Contrary to what the less independent thinkers among us want to believe, laws don't stop a thing. They only provide penalties for doing it after the fact.
Less independent or less childish? I agree that laws don't stop everyone from doing what they want. It is human nature to lash out against authority and seek one's own will; however, I can argue that the penalties and consequences associated with breaking a law do stop some people from acting with complete disregard towards a law. And if you want a law that has saved a life why not take the school zone law into account.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:11 PM   #70
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Then perhaps I misunderstood your post. It certainly appeared you were implying that those who don't like to be told what to do are the ones with the problem.

Do i wear one? About 50/50 honestly. Do i wear a seatbelt? Oddly - i dont even move the car out of the driveway without one. These are my choices.
no i never said they were a problem but i figure if i get hit or falll off my bike im gonna go flying like a lawn dart head first. will i die quite possibley. from a broken neck but at least my brains wont be all over the freeway
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:14 PM   #71
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Less independent or less childish? I agree that laws don't stop everyone from doing what they want. It is human nature to lash out against authority and seek one's own will; however, I can argue that the penalties and consequences associated with breaking a law do stop some people from acting with complete disregard towards a law. And if you want a law that has saved a life why not take the school zone law into account.
Has nothing to do with being childish. Has to do with getting sick and tired of people using whatever justification they can pull out of their to make something they dont like illegal.

School zones? You're nuts. All that does is give you a speeding ticket. In no way does it make anyone magically pay attention or drive better.

Laws do not stop bad behavior. They merely punish that behavior. Laws which punish people for directly violating another's rights are one thing. Laws which attempt to control behavior through negative reinforcement are something else entirely. Virtually all of what those types of laws seek to control are better modified through other means.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:14 PM   #72
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Motorcycles are dangerous. I think we all agree in that. So on that logic, lets ban all motorcycles. It could save a life. Right????

exactly....we don't need the government to protect us. Let me make my own decision. (and my decision is to wear a helmet prob 90% of the time)
I think you might have taken my logic a bit too far. I'm not saying get rid of motorcycles. But whats so horrible about making someone wait till they are 21 to decide whether or not they would like to wear a helmet?
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:15 PM   #73
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:16 PM   #74
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no i never said they were a problem but i figure if i get hit or falll off my bike im gonna go flying like a lawn dart head first. will i die quite possibley. from a broken neck but at least my brains wont be all over the freeway
No argument there. In truth - i'd RATHER die outright. If the injury is severe enough that the helmet saved my life, I'm statistically going to be a vegetable.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:17 PM   #75
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:17 PM   #76
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I think you might have taken my logic a bit too far. I'm not saying get rid of motorcycles. But whats so horrible about making someone wait till they are 21 to decide whether or not they would like to wear a helmet?
What is so horrible about letting an adult make his own decisions?
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:20 PM   #77
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When someone reads my patch that "Helmet laws suck" they immediately think I'm anti helmet. When in fact its the LAWS part that sucks.
EXACTLY!
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:21 PM   #78
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Has nothing to do with being childish. Has to do with getting sick and tired of people using whatever justification they can pull out of their to make something they dont like illegal.

School zones? You're nuts. All that does is give you a speeding ticket. In no way does it make anyone magically pay attention or drive better.

Laws do not stop bad behavior. They merely punish that behavior. Laws which punish people for directly violating another's rights are one thing. Laws which attempt to control behavior through negative reinforcement are something else entirely. Virtually all of what those types of laws seek to control are better modified through other means.
So your argument is that laws which attempt to control behavior through negative reinforcement should be done away with, such as the school zone law, because it doesn't stop bad behavior. If a law doesn't completely stop behavior then what is the point of having it right? Then what would you suggest? What other means could you use to prevent people from doing something wrong? Positive reinforcement and if/how so?
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:23 PM   #79
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I think you might have taken my logic a bit too far. I'm not saying get rid of motorcycles. But whats so horrible about making someone wait till they are 21 to decide whether or not they would like to wear a helmet?
BTW - no it isnt taking your logic a bit too far. It is the same concept.

Before you start saying things would never get that far, allow me to point you to anti-smoking legislation over the years. It has gone from people demanding separate smoking sections solely on an airplane to smokers being treated as virtual second class citizens who are not allowed to smoke in their own home in some cities.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:25 PM   #80
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My apologies then. Yes I'm all for that part of the law. Once you reach the "age of maturity" and can make your own decisions, join the military, take a life, then I'm all for that. Which brings in another thing I question which is is an 18 y/o be told to kick down a door in Iraq and kill everyone be considered mature enough to do that but not be mature enough to have a beer? But that's another conversation.
totally agree with you on that one. And that's the great thing about democracy. If only everyone who agrees would come together and vote, that could easily change.
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