MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 05-09-2009, 07:49 PM   #81
Badchev
Slow
 
Badchev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Here
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,350

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'01 Bandit









Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyhudson View Post
nope. seat time is the best teacher


I didn't read every post, but I would agree 100% with this. And start with good fundamentals, work on correcting bad habits first.
No hard and fast rules that apply to EVERY rider on EVERY bike. Much like the thread about correct body position.
Badchev is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Touch up technique? King Of Dirk General Discussion (Moto Related) 3 12-03-2011 10:37 AM
Japanese Pitching Technique FKNA Off Topic 16 07-17-2009 01:28 PM
Stress management technique.... Grinchy Off Topic 9 01-28-2009 03:48 PM
Immortal Technique Dreamer!! Off Topic 9 09-09-2008 09:26 AM
Braking Technique Cherub General Discussion (Moto Related) 9 06-12-2007 03:54 PM
Advertisement
Old 05-10-2009, 12:15 AM   #82
Buck Beasley
Older,Wiser,Faster
 
Buck Beasley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kemah, Texas
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 2,446

Experience: 10+ years


'05 Suzuki SV 650,


'04 Vespa 150

Member Garage





Send a message via Yahoo to Buck Beasley
Did I miss someone suggesting a bit of rear brake to tighten the line? So much Info here, but what you really need to be most aware of is your corrected LoFT upon entry. As you get more seat time, LoFT is easier to recognize and sort out for yourself and should DECREASE = Corrected LoFT.
__________________
CCS expert # 13
CMRA expert #413
Get off the keyboard and on your bike for a change...
Buck Beasley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 11:55 AM   #83
Mr. Unassailable
1-20-2013-Change we need
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 19,792

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+






Member Garage





1. roll off the throttle and lean in more.

2. start applying front brakes, keep leaning in more.

3. stand it up and try to run off with style.
__________________
Retired
tracksig
Mr. Unassailable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 12:02 PM   #84
Mr. Unassailable
1-20-2013-Change we need
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 19,792

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+






Member Garage





and maybe i should of read before i replied....

toooooo much brain in this thread.

so keep in mind when reading my answer, I (Mr. Unassailable) ride with , NOT Brains.
__________________
Retired
tracksig
Mr. Unassailable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 12:03 PM   #85
Mr Richards
Insert Clever Quote Here
 
Mr Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: League City
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 1,256

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
2005 Yamaha R1 (Street)
2005 Yamaha R1 (Track)



Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley View Post
Did I miss someone suggesting a bit of rear brake to tighten the line? So much Info here, but what you really need to be most aware of is your corrected LoFT upon entry. As you get more seat time, LoFT is easier to recognize and sort out for yourself and should DECREASE = Corrected LoFT.
LoFT

Lean On the Fukin Throttle?

Please, elaborate. Seriously <--no sarcasm.
__________________
I am a Nobody. Nobody is Perfect. Therefore, I am perfect.
Mr Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 12:28 PM   #86
texasyankee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sugar Land
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 370

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
Harley Low Rider
Kawi ZX6R (Track)








LoFT

Very clever, Buck. You couldn't wait to use it.
texasyankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 12:43 PM   #87
ROADandTRACK
Senior Member
 
ROADandTRACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antone
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 666

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
Too many to list









I thought LoFT is what happens when too much throttle is applied.
__________________
Have a beer w/ FEAR.
ROADandTRACK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 01:09 PM   #88
scooter09
FML
 
scooter09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jersey village
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 388

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
2011 CBR600RR Repsol
2005 GSX-R 600 (Sold)
2004 FZ6 street fighter (r.i.p.)
2001 TTR-230 (sold)






Loss of Front Tire?
scooter09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 01:26 PM   #89
Dreamer!!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hobby Airport
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 3,032

Experience: 2 years

Bike(s):
07 Ninja 250 (Sold), 93 CBR 900RR




Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to Dreamer!! Send a message via MSN to Dreamer!! Send a message via Yahoo to Dreamer!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudBug View Post
stay on the gas, lean more, an repeat OH FVCK OH FVCK OH FVCK!
__________________
[CENTER][IMG]http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2174/48830454.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
Dreamer!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 02:12 PM   #90
markn8442
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: denison, texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 196

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2013 kawasaki 636
Specializes Epic
KTMEXC200
KTTM640 Adventure
z50






i DO agree with max on the science of it...and i wish the question could be answered so simply.
but i gotta agree with jody and keith more...too many variables.
cuz what if your bike is running wide cuz the geometry of your bike is horrible. no matter what you do, it's just gonna keep running wide till you adjust it.
or what if it's running wide cuz you're taking a wrong entry into the corner?
or what if you ran wide cuz you keep tucking the front?
or what if your bike has run wide and you would like to stand the bike up and run off the track but there's an armco in front of you?
or what if you bike runs wide and you can't change your trajectory because you have one bike on your inside and another on your outside?
of what if your bike is running wide on the exits and your geometry is messed up so you put some pressure on the rear brake to tighten up your line so you don't have to let off the gas cuz your bike is a pig.
it just goes on and on....
running wide is a symptom.
there is no one single treatment.

Last edited by markn8442; 05-10-2009 at 02:13 PM. Reason: can't spell
markn8442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 02:16 PM   #91
THE DEAN OF LEAN
CMRA/WERA #171 AMA#771
 
THE DEAN OF LEAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 2,996

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
GSXR 600 Race Bike




Member Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley View Post
Did I miss someone suggesting a bit of rear brake to tighten the line? So much Info here, but what you really need to be most aware of is your corrected LoFT upon entry. As you get more seat time, LoFT is easier to recognize and sort out for yourself and should DECREASE = Corrected LoFT.
nice one buck. use of the rear brake to tighten your line. I seen that somewhere but have not heard ne one use it. Please respond to your pm
__________________
tj
www.TRACK-JUNKIE.com
THE DEAN OF LEAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 06:25 PM   #92
Buck Beasley
Older,Wiser,Faster
 
Buck Beasley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kemah, Texas
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 2,446

Experience: 10+ years


'05 Suzuki SV 650,


'04 Vespa 150

Member Garage





Send a message via Yahoo to Buck Beasley
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
LoFT

Very clever, Buck. You couldn't wait to use it.
Thanks Sam you get credit for that one. For the rest of you.......

LoFT = Lack of Fukn Talent.
More seat time= more experience= corrected LoFT.
EVERYONE at some point runs out of talent, no matter the variables, it's in the nature of the sport. We all want that last .001 on each lap and that is where we ride the razor of LoFT. My real advise besides the rear brake is "GO SLOW TO GET FAST" Muscle memory and repition are your friend. As someone stated before, in the bad situation you find you self in, you need to be thinking of the right thing to do. Hopefully you have not severly over ridden your skill set and it is something you can recover. Critique every session you ride. Why did one lap feel better than another? What did you do right and what did you do wrong. Ultimately you are tha only one with the real answers as you are the one in control.(hopefully) Be honest with youreslf in your critique and you will see the improvments on your very next session. And yes, pen and paper are required!! take honest notes remembering every detail you can, and analize it before you hit the track again.
Even got Keith with that one!!!
__________________
CCS expert # 13
CMRA expert #413
Get off the keyboard and on your bike for a change...

Last edited by Buck Beasley; 05-10-2009 at 06:30 PM.
Buck Beasley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 07:09 PM   #93
0oAndyo0
Trying togo fast again!
 
0oAndyo0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: @ the track
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,093

Experience: 4-8 months
Trackdays: 7

Bike(s):
2009 R6 Race bike forsale!
2006 GSXR Race bike SOLD!!!
2007 GSXR 750 SOLD!!!
2001 GSXR 600 SOLD!!!
2007 R1 SOLD!!!






Buck Beasley = Older wiser and faster is so true for under your avtar part...
__________________
CCS - 483
CMRA - 483
0oAndyo0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 08:15 PM   #94
texlurch
Official MH tag inspector
 
texlurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Smack dab in the middle of Colo
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,236

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
04 ZX-10R
02 ZX-12R BOTM 12/11
00 ZX-12R
07 GSXR 600
00 TL1000R BOTM 07/12 (sold)

Member Garage





LoFT.. I always used ROT running outta talent... same same
__________________
sig pic
A wise man once told me: "No matter how fine she is, just remember. Somewhere, someone is tired of her !"
.
.... Home of the "Black Ninja's"
texlurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #95
maxgs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a







Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK View Post
CENTRIFUGAL

–adjective 1. moving or directed outward from the center (opposed to centripetal ).
Because Centrifugal force is fictitious, it tends to be avoided by the physics guys. Centripetal is real.

"The common modern conception considers centrifugal force in a rotating reference frame a fictitious force that appears in equations of motion in rotating frames of reference, to explain effects of inertia as seen in such frames.[11] In modern science based on Newtonian mechanics, Leibniz's centrifugal force is a subset of this conception and is a result of his viewing the motion of a planet from the standpoint of a special reference frame co-rotating with the planet.[12]"

Last edited by maxgs; 05-10-2009 at 08:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #96
ysr612
Senior Member
 
ysr612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beaumont
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 437


Bike(s):
Transalp, DRZ, Hurricane









Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer997 View Post
Bikes and tires are more capable than 98% of the riders on them, especially a well-set-up track bike. My advice is always to be smooth and steady with the throttle (in either direction), and turn (which equals lean) the bike more. If there's grip on the track, you'll likely pull it off. Instinct says to roll off or chop the throttle, but actually applying a little throttle will help the bike turn; chop the throttle and you get front push. It's difficult to make the body do that, regardless of what the mind says; self-preservation is such, but I've saved far more than I've crashed this way

If you're running wide to the point that you're certain you're going to run off, then some opposites are in order. You're going to want to roll off, stand the bike up, and ride off. Apply brakes sparingly unless serious is your path.
ysr612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 08:41 PM   #97
maxgs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a







Member Garage





Because we can never get enough physics...

"Reactive centrifugal force
Main article: Reactive centrifugal force

The concept of reactive centrifugal force originated with Isaac Newton in the 17th century. From his third law of motion, Newton concluded that the centripetal force which acts upon an object must cause in its turn an equal and opposite centrifugal force, which is exerted by the object upon the very agency providing its centripetal force. As an example, the Earth exerts through gravitational attraction a centripetal force upon the Moon, maintaining the Moon in orbit about the Earth, and the Moon in turn exerts a reactive centrifugal force upon the Earth. The concept of the reactive centrifugal force is not given much attention in modern physics textbooks, but does appear in engineering texts that deal with internal stresses in rotating solid bodies.[1] For example, in a simple rotating turbine the section of a blade near the shaft exerts an inward (centripetal) force on the outer section of the blade. In accordance with Newton's third law, the outer section also exerts an equal and opposite outward (centrifugal) force on the inner section. This produces an internal stress in the turbine blade.

In some cases, this concept is confused with the rotating reference frame conception. For example, Nelkon & Parker's 1961 edition of Advanced Level Physics, centrifugal force is introduced and explained according to Isaac Newton's action-reaction approach. In the same section, the centrifuge machine is explained using centrifugal force as a real force. However, in the 1971 revision of the same textbook, the centrifugal force section has disappeared and the centrifuge machine is explained using some kind of compound negative centripetal force. This type of confusion still on occasion occurs in modern textbooks."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 11:47 PM   #98
maxgs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a







Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by markn8442 View Post
max, if us racers have to think in those terms, we're gonna crash our off.
to me, Newton was a guy that i ran over in 1976.
and the moon is something that hangs out when your britches are too big.
can't ya come to our team and help us with our datalogger?
I got some data from Dustin today, playing around at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Just GPS and lap times, no RPM, throttle position or brake sensor. But it has me thinking. It would be cool to create a wiring harness with plugs for some of the more standard bikes, so you could simply install the data acquisition and plug straight into the wiring harness for some of the extra info, and then be able to remove it just as easily. We got Dustin up and running in 15 or 20 minutes. With a harness it might be another 5 or 10 but then you have throttle position sensor, RPM, and brake sensor. That would be very interesting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2009, 12:02 AM   #99
Spidermonkey
TTD's home grown
 
Spidermonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: houston tx
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 278

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
07 sv650 trackbike/08 zx6 sold(i loved it)/ 08 R6 (head shakes!)



trackdays: 98






maxg you are very persistent in this matter, I admire that.
I agree that there nothing wrong with trying to look at things we do scientifically. Over time, bikes change, tires evolve and riders adapt; but laws of physics stay the same.

next.. lol
__________________
Spidermonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2009, 07:15 AM   #100
markn8442
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: denison, texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 196

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2013 kawasaki 636
Specializes Epic
KTMEXC200
KTTM640 Adventure
z50






i like it

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
I got some data from Dustin today, playing around at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Just GPS and lap times, no RPM, throttle position or brake sensor. But it has me thinking. It would be cool to create a wiring harness with plugs for some of the more standard bikes, so you could simply install the data acquisition and plug straight into the wiring harness for some of the extra info, and then be able to remove it just as easily. We got Dustin up and running in 15 or 20 minutes. With a harness it might be another 5 or 10 but then you have throttle position sensor, RPM, and brake sensor. That would be very interesting.
yea, and if you could get our cameras hard-wired, you would get the genius-of-the-month award for sure.
that would be very cool.
markn8442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy