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Old 05-08-2009, 12:13 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAN LADEN View Post
i dont know much but I think the laws of physics say that an object pushes on earth (the track or whatever) and that the earth pushes back. So if I have my lean angle set and smoothly and consistently roll on the throttle which transfers weight to the rear tire increasing my contact with the track pushing harder against the earth would it not push back with more force? So with out changing my lean angle would I not make it thru the corner? That would certainly tighten my turn radius. again i am still working on my degree so i am clueless but it seems to make sense in my pea-sized brain.

oh dont look at my sig u prolly wont agree with that either
That's backwards, applying more throttle does not tighten a bikes turning radius.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force

The centripetal force is the external force required to make a body follow a curved path.[1][2] Isaac Newton's description is found in the Principia.[3]

Any force (gravitational, electromagnetic, etc.) or combination of forces can act to provide a centripetal force. An example for the case of uniform circular motion is shown in Figure 1.

Centripetal force is directed inward, toward the center of curvature of the path.

240px Centripetal force diagramsvg

What acts against this force is the traction available at the front and rear tire contact patch.

The formula for computing centripetal force is:

The magnitude of the centripetal force is given by:

F=(mv^2)/r

where m is the mass, v is the magnitude of the velocity, and r is the radius of curvature of the path.

So, the force increases with the SQUARE of the velocity. Therefore, if you increase your velocity through a turn, more force (traction) is required to keep the bike on it's same path.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:50 PM   #62
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A great racer once told me when I was starting out the trick to going fast, when I asked the same question. The answer was "you enter the turn so fast that the front tire tucks and run a little wide and as soon as you save it you get on the gas so hard you almost high side" that might sound a bit extreme but still holds true. There is not a turn on any track that I didn't think I would run wide on when I was at pace. My advice is simply relax your hands and let the bike steer itself. But what do I know you should ask Tom he has way more racing experience than me.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:54 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by launchpad199 View Post
A great racer once told me when I was starting out the trick to going fast, when I asked the same question. The answer was "you enter the turn so fast that the front tire tucks and run a little wide and as soon as you save it you get on the gas so hard you almost high side" that might sound a bit extreme but still holds true. There is not a turn on any track that I didn't think I would run wide on when I was at pace. My advice is simply relax your hands and let the bike steer itself. But what do I know you should ask Tom he has way more racing experience than me.
And that's why you are an AMA racer, Larry.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:19 PM   #64
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Either way, It sounds to me that there are no hard and fast rules about what to do. Different people do different things. Me personally, I know that when I start running wide, in the carousel at MSRH, for example, I DO NOT fkn twist the throttle. If I thought about other corners maybe I do different things.

When a new guy is asking me what do do in this situation, I dont tell him to get on the gas. And I dont tell him to shut up and ride either.

Anyway, great thread. Tks for the replies.
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by launchpad199 View Post
A great racer once told me when I was starting out the trick to going fast, when I asked the same question. The answer was "you enter the turn so fast that the front tire tucks and run a little wide and as soon as you save it you get on the gas so hard you almost high side" that might sound a bit extreme but still holds true. There is not a turn on any track that I didn't think I would run wide on when I was at pace. My advice is simply relax your hands and let the bike steer itself. But what do I know you should ask Tom he has way more racing experience than me.
BLAH BLAH BLAH LARRY!!!!

You just got sucked into a BS discussion.

Notice you only mentioned ONE type of running wide. Oops, don't wanna start this thread up again.
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:31 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK View Post
BLAH BLAH BLAH LARRY!!!!

You just got sucked into a BS discussion.

Notice you only mentioned ONE type of running wide. Oops, don't wanna start this thread up again.

Enlighten me as to what is BS about the discussion? Is it a discussion not worthy?
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:36 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyhudson View Post
there are to many variables involved to give u a step by step. just ride. u will figure it out or u will bust ur
10-4

So bottom line, no hard and fast rules as to what to do.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:04 PM   #68
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I use the "pucker" technique. Hasn't worked yet. But I'm not a quitter.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:06 PM   #69
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Well here is one more laws of physic for you physic guru:

If things can go wrong will go wrong.


I agreed with some of the guys on here pertaining variable and what needs to be done to stay on the track. I am a snail compared to most on here, but I would trail brake, lean harder and get on the gas as soon as I feel that it's safe but if I see that doesn't help then off road excursion is just another discussion.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:43 PM   #70
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by jodyhudson View Post
there are to many variables involved to give u a step by step. just ride. u will figure it out or u will bust ur
Jody, you have more riding/racing experience than 95% of the people on the board. What is so difficult about answer this question? There are three basic components that control the line through a turn. Turn in, lean angle, and throttle.

The quicker the turn in the tighter line the rider can carve, and the less lean angle that's required and the faster the rider can stand the bike back up.

More lean angle means carving a sharper turn, so if you need to decrease the radius of your turn, you need to lean more.

The higher the bike's velocity in a turn, the more force that is going to exhibited to force the bike towards the outside of the turn. So if the rider is pushing wide, they can slightly reduce throttle input to decrease the radius of the turn. For faster riders who are already twisting the throttle open, if they are pushing wide, they simply slow down the rate that they are applying the throttle.

And, finally, whatever you do, do it smoothly.
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:47 PM   #72
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If we wanted to get more specific, we discuss what to do going wide at (1) corner entry, (2) mid turn, and (3) track out. There are definitely different approaches to each situation, but it's not particularly difficult to describe.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:12 PM   #73
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some good info in here, i've always chopped the throttle when going wide. first i usually clench my cheeks though, that alone does wonders.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:22 PM   #74
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this thread should have a health warning
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
Jody, you have more riding/racing experience than 95% of the people on the board. What is so difficult about answer this question? There are three basic components that control the line through a turn. Turn in, lean angle, and throttle.

The quicker the turn in the tighter line the rider can carve, and the less lean angle that's required and the faster the rider can stand the bike back up.

More lean angle means carving a sharper turn, so if you need to decrease the radius of your turn, you need to lean more.

The higher the bike's velocity in a turn, the more force that is going to exhibited to force the bike towards the outside of the turn. So if the rider is pushing wide, they can slightly reduce throttle input to decrease the radius of the turn. For faster riders who are already twisting the throttle open, if they are pushing wide, they simply slow down the rate that they are applying the throttle.

And, finally, whatever you do, do it smoothly.

Sorry but your calculator and GPS ain't gonna figure this out.

Too many variables.

The answer is: IT DEPENDS.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:10 PM   #76
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Sorry but your calculator and GPS ain't gonna figure this out.

Too many variables.

The answer is: IT DEPENDS.
I already have it figured out, Spanky.

So if a novice track rider asks that question, that's your complete answer: "It Depends"? What a cop out.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:20 PM   #77
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there is this really good section in twist of the wrist. cant remember if its volume 1 or 2. someone help me here...

basicly it says always focus on what to do, instead of what NOT to do. like target fixation, you will do what your thinking about, even if your thinking about not doing it. phrase everything as a positive. example

bad: i will not brake too late.
good: i will brake early enough.

start using that mentality in all your riding, and you wont run into "oops" problems so much. instead of working on "how to not f*** up", work on "how to do it right"

just my $0.02 idk if itll help you, but i hope so...happy trails.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:37 AM   #78
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I already have it figured out, Spanky.

So if a novice track rider asks that question, that's your complete answer: "It Depends"? What a cop out.
No, Stinkfist.

It would have to be in person at the track to help him/her out.

Cuz thats what I do. Help. Like what some of us were trying to do for you.

But you got it figured out.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:42 PM   #79
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I am sure it differs on a lot of variables.

Curt & Brandt, we are much heavier than a lot of the other riders, so when we roll off of the throttle or brake while leaned over the bike doesn't want to stand up straight as bad as with some of the lighter guys.
It makes sense to me that rolling off or applying a small amount of front brake would tighten it because you transfer some weight onto the front and compress the forks/reduce the trail, which has already been mentioned. :s
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:12 PM   #80
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CENTRIFUGAL

–adjective 1. moving or directed outward from the center (opposed to centripetal ).
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