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Old 05-08-2009, 08:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaligoneTx View Post
If you let off the throttle doesnt the suspension compress and shorten the wheel base momentarily and allow a tighter turn in?

True you are putting weight on the front tire and creating understeer so you'd have to lean harder vs an oversteer situation where the front is lighter.
Try it. Go into a corner at, say, 35 or 40 mph. Pull in the clutch mid corner during mid lean. See what happens. The bike isn't going to want to turn tighter. Same thing happens when you chop the throttle. It happens when you roll off, too, with results only slightly less dramatic. It has everything to do with drive.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:55 AM   #22
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When running into a turn at the track too hot I usually ask myself, "what would Obama do"?
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:56 AM   #23
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer997 View Post
Try it. Go into a corner at, say, 35 or 40 mph. Pull in the clutch mid corner during mid lean. See what happens. The bike isn't going to want to turn tighter. Same thing happens when you chop the throttle. It happens when you roll off, too, with results only slightly less dramatic. It has everything to do with drive.
There is a big difference between complete loss of drive and reduction of throttle. I think you feel like being argumentative this morning.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer997 View Post
Try it. Go into a corner at, say, 35 or 40 mph. Pull in the clutch mid corner during mid lean. See what happens. The bike isn't going to want to turn tighter. Same thing happens when you chop the throttle. It happens when you roll off, too, with results only slightly less dramatic. It has everything to do with drive.
Apples and oranges. Grabbing the clutch at mid turn if you are already in to hot, is the equivalent of chopping the throttle. It will totally disrupt the suspension and give unpredictable results. How does one extrapolate that to "give it more gas to turn tighter"?

Please explain.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:59 AM   #26
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Like Racer997 says, chopping the throttle seems to want to push the bike wider. From my experience I've always got to be ready for the bike to slide out a little when I have to chop it for some reason. As stated, I've always found that applying the throttle a little works. It almost feels like the bike "digs" in more and I can lean it over and turn tighter.

Or you can grab the front brake and release it real quick which can cause the front to turn in tighter...hopefully you don't fully tuck it though
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthHoustonGSXR View Post
When running into a turn at the track too hot I usually ask myself, "what would Obama do"?


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Old 05-08-2009, 09:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Really. So as an track day guy running in the advanced group, if I come into a corner and find myself going wide and I want to save it, your advice to me is give it more throttle? We aren't talking a nuance level of throttle here that an AMA rider or CMRA expert would use, I mean an average advanced level track rider.

Please explain.
Yes, Curt. Really. My advice to people who ask he this question is this and this alone - "Don't chop the throttle. Don't whack it open, either." And then come the little details that confuse people.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #29
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To be clear the discussions isn't whether it's better to apply a little more throttle or CHOP the throttle; chopping the throttle is obviously not a good idea because of the wild impact to a fully loaded suspension.

The discussion is what do you do if you are running wide in a turn. Lins has suggested that you give it more throttle. I'm keenly interested in an explanation of why that is better than slightly rolling off the throttle. The subject is an average advanced level track rider.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:06 AM   #30
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Yes, Curt. Really. My advice to people who ask he this question is this and this alone - "Don't chop the throttle. Don't whack it open, either." And then come the little details that confuse people.
So let's talk about those little details that confuse people. I'll try not to get confused.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Apples and oranges. Grabbing the clutch at mid turn if you are already in to hot, is the equivalent of chopping the throttle. It will totally disrupt the suspension and give unpredictable results. How does one extrapolate that to "give it more gas to turn tighter"?

Please explain.
Curt hasn't liked me since he interviewed me last October.

You can explain it better than I, Curt. Perhaps you can post a video that explains it all?

Once Keith Code was asked why he was never a world champion himself, even though he's instructed plenty of them. He said, "I have taught dozens of champions, but some are more naturally gifted at applying these techniques than others. Still others have the innate ability to do things that even I can't explain or teach."

Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator View Post
There is a big difference between complete loss of drive and reduction of throttle. I think you feel like being argumentative this morning.
The principal is the same, Carl, but you are indeed correct in there is a big difference between complete loss and some reduction.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:16 AM   #32
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So let's talk about those little details that confuse people. I'll try not to get confused.

I'm certain you'd be confused. You already are.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer997 View Post
Curt hasn't liked me since he interviewed me last October.

You can explain it better than I, Curt. Perhaps you can post a video that explains it all?

Once Keith Code was asked why he was never a world champion himself, even thoigh he's instructed plenty of them. He said, "I have taught dozens of champions, but some are more naturally gifted at applying these techniques than others. Still others have the innate ability to do things that even I can't explain or teach."



The principal is the same, Carl, but you are indeed correct in there is a big difference between complete loss and some reduction.
Have you mixed me up with another 6'6" 300 lb guy with a shaved head? I never interviewed you. Ba ha ha ha.

Further, I always enjoy your posts.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:17 AM   #34
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I'm certain you'd be confused. You already are.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:18 AM   #35
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IF you cut any power the suspension does not compress, it loosens and causes the bike to lose grip and can cause it to get squirrely. The power you are using in the turn is what is putting the suspension under pressure and creating more grip. IF you can brake slightly while under power it will scrub off some speed, but you have to do it gently and progressively. I just force myself to commit and hope it comes out all right. Usually once you see the exit of the turn getting on the throttle is the best thing to do. (all this works for me and has saved my , but dont go taking it as the gospel I've never done track)
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:21 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Once Keith Code was asked why he was never a world champion himself, even though he's instructed plenty of them. He said, "I have taught dozens of champions, but some are more naturally gifted at applying these techniques than others. Still others have the innate ability to do things that even I can't explain or teach."
I want to meet the racer that is so naturally gifted that they can defy the laws of physics. I was really hoping that was you, and you could shed some light on how increasing the lateral force in a turn will reduce the bike's turning radius.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:23 AM   #37
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Here's what I do if I start pushing wide...

I first drop a little more weight off the bike (example- move off and drop upper body as low as I can to get the center of gravity as low as possible) and roll very slightly on the throttle and CONCENTRATE as hard as I can on where I want to go.

I've only ran off a handfull of times, and I think everyone of them was appsolutly to hot for my skill level
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:26 AM   #38
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Quote:
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I want to meet the racer that is so naturally gifted that they can defy the laws of physics. I was really hoping that was you, and you could shed some light on how increasing the lateral force in a turn will reduce the bike's turning radius.

I ain't that guy, Curt. But you have met me, twice, in fact, and interviewed me once. I even introduced myself to you. I'm just a guy, I'm not memorable, but if you can't remember meeting someone on two separate occassions, I don't expect you to understand other things.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:28 AM   #39
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And in chimes the guy whose comments precipitated this whole discussion.

So based on that expert opinion, I guess we should start teaching people to get on the gas when they are running wide.

What a bunch of utter nonsense.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:29 AM   #40
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I apply the brakes a little longer or get off the throttle a little, counter steer more which increases the lean and look where I want to go.

If I'm really hot I stick my leg out which is just a reaction from my motocross days. Grrrr
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