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Old 05-08-2009, 07:38 AM   #1
cdill35
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What technique(s) do you use, when you find yourself running wide?

What is your first move? 2nd? 3rd? Is it a combination of things?
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:41 AM   #2
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Try not to panic, if not too deep try to ease some brakes in there to lose a few mph and force the bike to turn harder/lean more.
The worst idea is to give up on making the turn, IMHO it would be better to lowside than run off and possibly cartwheel or something.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:48 AM   #3
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Chop the throttle and look where you don't want to go
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:49 AM   #4
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Look where you "don't" want to go? Nevermind, that was a joke. :/
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:01 AM   #5
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Do you maintain the same throttle in that corner while you brake lightly?


Im asking because the weight transfer could be significant if you roll off.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:02 AM   #6
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When I run wide, it seems like it is because I think that I am coming into the turn to hot, and am on the brakes a little too long. With that being the case, I generally try to force myself to get off the brakes and lean the bike over more.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:04 AM   #7
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:25 AM   #8
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There could be a little debate on this.

I roll off the throttle a tad, not off completely...using a bit of engine braking, coupled with a tad of front brake (if necessary) and very light counter steering...along with the given weighting of the inside peg and looking harder and further through teh turn. I typically know, before turning in, if I am too hot for my skill level...so I also just stay on the brakes as deep, into the turn, as I possibly can.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:30 AM   #9
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I generally yell and scream and like a little girl...

Ok, if this is a serious question:

For street riding.

I first make sure I am not looking RIGHT in front of the bike (we've all done it) and make sure I am looking where I want to go off in the distance.

This is harder to DO than it sounds, but if you force yourself to look further away, the chances of making it through are much better. Denny Spears covered this in the TMGP licensing class and although I knew it, when he described it this way, it really made sense.

"When your driving down the road at 55 mph and look directly down at the road, it seems like your going really fast, but if you look out on the horizon at a mountain in the distance, it seems like you are going slow."

It allows you to "slow things down" and it works well.

Try to lean/turn a little more while either keeping the throttle the same or possibly even smoothly applying more throttle. This keeps the bike from lifting and causing you to run even more wide in the turn.

The group I ride with a lot call this particular event our "epiphany moment". We all agree that we all have dealt with something like this before we got faster and smoother on the street.

For most of us, this is where we learned the old "when in doubt, gas it out" adage and found out it really works, the tires really have more grip than you thought, and everything clicks.

My 0.02, your results may vary.

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Old 05-08-2009, 08:34 AM   #10
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We had a debate, a few of us, not too long ago. Give it more throttle, or not.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:36 AM   #11
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Bikes and tires are more capable than 98% of the riders on them, especially a well-set-up track bike. My advice is always to be smooth and steady with the throttle (in either direction), and turn (which equals lean) the bike more. If there's grip on the track, you'll likely pull it off. Instinct says to roll off or chop the throttle, but actually applying a little throttle will help the bike turn; chop the throttle and you get front push. It's difficult to make the body do that, regardless of what the mind says; self-preservation is such, but I've saved far more than I've crashed this way

If you're running wide to the point that you're certain you're going to run off, then some opposites are in order. You're going to want to roll off, stand the bike up, and ride off. Apply brakes sparingly unless serious is your path.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:40 AM   #12
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No doubt.. if I know I am going off, I stand the bike straight up, the last moment I know I aint gonna make it. Running off at lean...you will taste the soil.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:40 AM   #13
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So, isnt there a math equation that proves slowing down will decrease your radius?
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
So, isnt there a math equation that proves slowing down will decrease your radius?
With mass under acceleration coupled with drive (grip), the opposite is true.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
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With mass under acceleration, the opposite is true.
Key word being "mass."
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:48 AM   #16
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If you let off the throttle doesnt the suspension compress and shorten the wheel base momentarily and allow a tighter turn in?

True you are putting weight on the front tire and creating understeer so you'd have to lean harder vs an oversteer situation where the front is lighter.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:49 AM   #17
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good thread
with what little experience i have, in some close calls, but not so "oh " moments, i was able to lean the bike more with a little less throttle than normal for that turn and make the turn, but the corner was completely blown and i prolly lost 5 seconds, but kept the rubber side down
now, in my last trackday, MSRH, i was going wide in the carousel with normal speed, but a lot of headshake, i couldn't get the bike to get back into the turn, i just sailed off towards the infield and crashed once my tires hit the grass. i know i could have looked where i wanted to go and slowed more or something, but i just didn't think fast enough.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:51 AM   #18
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When I went off at the shicane on TWS (Texas World Speedway) I hit the brakes hard and let off when hit the grass and rode it out on the rear brake.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
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With mass under acceleration coupled with drive (grip), the opposite is true.
Really. So as an track day guy running in the advanced group, if I come into a corner and find myself going wide and I want to save it, your advice to me is give it more throttle? We aren't talking a nuance level of throttle here that an AMA rider or CMRA expert would use, I mean an average advanced level track rider.

Please explain.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:52 AM   #20
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My understanding of throttle, and I have tried it at slower pace, is that a small percentage of throttle reduction will transfer a "little" more weight to the front, thereby collapsing the forks slighty more and tightening the line. Increasing throttle causes the opposite, increase of fork length, and a wider line thru the turn.

I however, am like most other non-racers and find it much easier to talk about it than to actually do it. I usually find myself, when coming in too hot, saying "Oh , Oh , Oh " leaning harder and depending on the occasion either making the turn or sliding across it. I have become quite the accomplished slider in my old age.
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