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Old 05-06-2009, 05:30 PM   #21
witchdoctor575
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I've had many friends who are bike mechanics take a listen to it. With 27,000 miles on the bike it needs to be replaced anyway. If the valves have to be adjusted also, and i'm in the motor, what in the sense does it make not to replace the chain while i'm there? I have a friend who knows a lot about bikes that is going to help, two actually. Both have replaced timing chains/belts on cars, one has done it on a bike. Correct me if i'm wrong, but to those who posted "just change the tensioner" sound like fools to me. If the motor is taken apart, the valves need to adjusted, why would you just replace the tensioner and go on your way? The bike more than likely is high mileage, more than one mechanic has looked at it and says the timing chain is whats clanking. Also, to the person who says "sounds like the op doesn't even really know what the problem is" While at idle, you can hear a distinctive chain clanking noise so loud from ten yards away it's annoying. And, if the tensioner is up, and the chain has enough slack to be heard clanking from that far away, what does it tell you about the chains current state?



the tensioner is on the OUTSIDE of the motor and is held on with 2 bolts. it costs 25 dollars and takes longer to remove your fairing than it does to change the tensioner. you go eat a ! BTW, if you don't like the advise that is dispensed then don't make a thread asking about your problem, since your an obvious bike expert.
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:32 PM   #22
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They are trying to honestly help w the information provided.

To adjust the valves, the valve cover needs to come off, maybe the started cover to turn the engine, that is all. To replace the chain, add all but the two hours that would have been charged for the valve adjustment... Its a much larger step(assuming the engine didn't need to be lowered to remove the valve cover to get to the valves; and they are shimmed so you will need a shim kit or visit a moto shop to exchange your shims pre-adjustment.)

Tensioners are very common to go out on bikes; there are ways to determine if its a chain or the tension based on rpm, load conditions. Easiest over-the-net explaination, swap out the chain tensioner. A chain can still be salvaged even if the tensioner is inefficient.

As the for chain itself, I never had to replace one on a bike. The busa had nearly 33k of hard riding. Tensioners can go out merely by lack of oil or o-ring failure inside depending on design.
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:40 PM   #23
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I stand corrected. I didn't know that the tensioner sat on the outside of the motor, sorry for the angry/ignorant post. But if without the tensioner putting proper tension on the chain, it is making this loud of noise, doesn't that mean theres just too much slack in it? I figured if it was that loud, that even with a tensioner it would need to be replaced soon

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Old 05-06-2009, 05:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R6Benny View Post
I've had many friends who are bike mechanics take a listen to it. With 27,000 miles on the bike it needs to be replaced anyway. If the valves have to be adjusted also, and i'm in the motor, what in the sense does it make not to replace the chain while i'm there? I have a friend who knows a lot about bikes that is going to help, two actually. Both have replaced timing chains/belts on cars, one has done it on a bike. Correct me if i'm wrong, but to those who posted "just change the tensioner" sound like fools to me. If the motor is taken apart, the valves need to adjusted, why would you just replace the tensioner and go on your way? The bike more than likely is high mileage, more than one mechanic has looked at it and says the timing chain is whats clanking. Also, to the person who says "sounds like the op doesn't even really know what the problem is" While at idle, you can hear a distinctive chain clanking noise so loud from ten yards away it's annoying. And, if the tensioner is up, and the chain has enough slack to be heard clanking from that far away, what does it tell you about the chains current state?
We are all just trying to help, without seeing/hearing anything, maybe Ur right but I can tell U several guys on here are purdy good mechanics and a timing belt on a car aint the same as a timing chain on a bike, With that attitude maybe U should just go ahead and buy a whole new bike, I mean why bother fixing an old one might as well spend 14K and be done with it Good Luck with your repair, hope things go well and If they dont I,m sure all the above guys U just bashed for trying to help will fall all over themselfs to help then
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:18 PM   #25
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Actually to be fair to R6Benny, he didn't ask for an opinion of what was wrong with his scooter. He asked for a cheap mechanic. The two shops he
visited in College Station are "outragous". I know one of the shops and if they told him "X" hours labor, it's "X" hours of labor.

He needs to do the job himself with his freinds that have replaced timing
chains/belts on cars and let the chips fall where they may.

Sounds like someone will be able to pick up a cheap R6 in a few weeks that will just need a used motor droped into it...

(BTW: when you ask for advise online, you get what you pay for....)
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:36 PM   #26
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Chains can be very resilient. they get splash lubrication so are protected alot more then the outside chain. Plus, since it only sees one direction and continually pulls vs on/neutral pull it can last longer(design is different too.) Imagine the three sprockets and the crank being the driving force; the chain doesn't have ability to move too far due to the area and the natural tension on the pull side of the cam sprockets. But without the tensioner on the other side compressing the slack each engine pulse would cause noise by the chain slapping the plastic-coated guide. We aren't saying the tensioner is it, but I highly recommend inspected it before diving in deep.

I see you're in College Station; there is a very knowledgeable group at Motorcycles Unlimited that I would trust any concern with on my bike(im a MasterTech at BMW and they've set me straight several times.) If you can trailer it down or make sure a reputable shop takes a quick gander before you start tearing an engine apart I'd highly recommend it.

There's actually several TWS (Texas World Speedway) track days this and next weekend; it would be closer to your area if you can come out and say Hi. I dont know if there will be any reps from Motorcycles Unlimited there, but I'll be there on the 17th. Come and hang out with us.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:20 PM   #27
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Replacing timing chains on modern bikes is very rare event. Automatic tensioners on the other hand very commonly need replacement. A timing chain is not the same kind of chain as your drive chain and does not commonly stretch or become "worn" and is not under too much pressure.

More commonly, the automatic tensioners fail which is why I said "tensioner?" first. I wasn't trying to insult you with my statement about not knowing, but the repair you want to make here is an extensive event and is probably not necessary.

To adjust the valves on your bike all you have to do it remove the rocker cover and the cover for the crank/ stator bolt to turn the engine. To take apart the engine for a valve adjustment is like saying you need to split the cases to change a spark plug. For the most part too on modern sport bikes the valves rarely need any adjustment even with 27k miles. Not to say it doesn't happen, but not often.

My guess is that the noise you're hearing is coming from somewhere else- water pump, timing chain tensioner, etc.

Back to my original post, take it to Motorcycles Unlimited, they'll get you taken care of.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:32 PM   #28
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Replacing timing chains on modern bikes is very rare event. Automatic tensioners on the other hand very commonly need replacement. A timing chain is not the same kind of chain as your drive chain and does not commonly stretch or become "worn" and is not under too much pressure.

More commonly, the automatic tensioners fail which is why I said "tensioner?" first. I wasn't trying to insult you with my statement about not knowing, but the repair you want to make here is an extensive event and is probably not necessary.

To adjust the valves on your bike all you have to do it remove the rocker cover and the cover for the crank/ stator bolt to turn the engine. To take apart the engine for a valve adjustment is like saying you need to split the cases to change a spark plug. For the most part too on modern sport bikes the valves rarely need any adjustment even with 27k miles. Not to say it doesn't happen, but not often.

My guess is that the noise you're hearing is coming from somewhere else- water pump, timing chain tensioner, etc.

Back to my original post, take it to Motorcycles Unlimited, they'll get you taken care of.
Well, I replaced the tensioner this afternoon. The only problem is, I think the chain fell off the bottom sprocket and is now a tooth off with timing. I think the problem was the tensioner because we got the bike to idle for a sec and he said the noise was gone. Now it's just trouble shooting to see why the bike is having problems starting. You can get it to start, but you have to give it full throttle to idle at like four thousand rpms. Like I said my guess is that it just fell off the bottom sprocket when the tensioner was taken off, and when we put the new one in it, it was a tooth off.

On a side note, to the people who keep bashing me. Friends and I have put a lot of time into this R6, I didn't just go out and buy something nice. It's been very frustrating and I apologized to those who I snapped at in that post. I appreciate the help greatly, but with an older bike it just seems like problem after problem. Thank you for anyone who posted the helpful responses, it just may have been the tensioner so I thank you.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by R6Benny View Post
Well, I replaced the tensioner this afternoon. The only problem is, I think the chain fell off the bottom sprocket and is now a tooth off with timing. I think the problem was the tensioner because we got the bike to idle for a sec and he said the noise was gone. Now it's just trouble shooting to see why the bike is having problems starting. You can get it to start, but you have to give it full throttle to idle at like four thousand rpms. Like I said my guess is that it just fell off the bottom sprocket when the tensioner was taken off, and when we put the new one in it, it was a tooth off.

On a side note, to the people who keep bashing me. Friends and I have put a lot of time into this R6, I didn't just go out and buy something nice. It's been very frustrating and I apologized to those who I snapped at in that post. I appreciate the help greatly, but with an older bike it just seems like problem after problem. Thank you for anyone who posted the helpful responses, it just may have been the tensioner so I thank you.
Probably jumped a tooth on a (or both) cams. Usually it doesn't jump teeth on the bottom sprag.

Should be an easy fix- take off the rocker cover and timing access covers and set it to TDC per the manual's instructions. Check your timing per instructions and that will tell you if it's a tooth off. No big ordeal there.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:30 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Probably jumped a tooth on a (or both) cams. Usually it doesn't jump teeth on the bottom sprag.

Should be an easy fix- take off the rocker cover and timing access covers and set it to TDC per the manual's instructions. Check your timing per instructions and that will tell you if it's a tooth off. No big ordeal there.
I'm done working on it until code99kid gets back from overseas. I've never messed with timing before, and quite frankly i've worked on the bike too much for right now. I'd rather just have someone else do it. Thanks though
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:41 PM   #32
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I'm done working on it until code99kid gets back from overseas. I've never messed with timing before, and quite frankly i've worked on the bike too much for right now. I'd rather just have someone else do it. Thanks though
I hear you man, but it is very easy to do.
As I mentioned, Motorcycles Unlimited is very capable of helping you out with this too.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:46 PM   #33
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I hear you man, but it is very easy to do.
As I mentioned, Motorcycles Unlimited is very capable of helping you out with this too.
I'm in College Station, and the bike wont start. It's too far for me to trailer it there. You really think it jumped timing sitting there, just by taking out the tensioner?

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Old 05-06-2009, 11:44 PM   #34
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I'm in College Station, and the bike wont start. It's too far for me to trailer it there. You really think it jumped timing sitting there, just by taking out the tensioner?
By taking off the tensioner it's entirely possible that it jumped time. A cam lobe can be under tension by a valve spring, spin the cam and jump a tooth or two. Yes.

But as I said earlier, it's really easy to check the timing and it requires no real special tools.

When I check timing or reinstall a timing chain, I usually hold the cam sprockets while the tensioner is out so that it won't jump time.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:48 PM   #35
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Use/ download the manual here: http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/r...ir-manual.html

It should spell out step-by-step how to check the timing on your bike.
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:58 PM   #36
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By taking off the tensioner it's entirely possible that it jumped time. A cam lobe can be under tension by a valve spring, spin the cam and jump a tooth or two. Yes.

But as I said earlier, it's really easy to check the timing and it requires no real special tools.

When I check timing or reinstall a timing chain, I usually hold the cam sprockets while the tensioner is out so that it won't jump time.
yeah - whut he said.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:36 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R6Benny View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong, but to those who posted "just change the tensioner" sound like fools to me. If the motor is taken apart, the valves need to adjusted, why would you just replace the tensioner and go on your way? The bike more than likely is high mileage, more than one mechanic has looked at it and says the timing chain is whats clanking. Also, to the person who says "sounds like the op doesn't even really know what the problem is" While at idle, you can hear a distinctive chain clanking noise so loud from ten yards away it's annoying. And, if the tensioner is up, and the chain has enough slack to be heard clanking from that far away, what does it tell you about the chains current state?
Ok, I'll correct you because your wrong. LOTS of people (especially racers) run manual cam chain tensioners on their bikes because the stock runs fail, don't stay adjusted, and also don't have a wide enough range of adjustment. You don't have to go into the motor at all to replace the cam chain tensioner. Also..........guess what a dead/bad cam chain tensioner sounds like? It sounds like a cam chain slapping around! Weird huh?

So before you tear your motor up take a look at the $25 tensioner. 25k miles is NOT that much for a cam chain. Its not a cam BELT like on a car....its a chain. They last a little longer....
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:54 PM   #38
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....^^^old news...... I can check the timing
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