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Old 02-23-2006, 11:35 PM   #1
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Its about money, not safety

Got this from a friend.

I have been telling people that the push to make rider education mandatory is About Money and Not Safety.
Well it has again raised its ugly head again.
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation wants to make Rider Education Mandatory. They have been successful in many states of doing that for those under 21 years of age. Now their push is to make it Mandatory for getting motorcycle endorsements to your licenses, even if you have past rider experience or can pass the state exam.
They are also asking for it to be made MANDATORY for licensed riders to take Remedial Classes. Yep even if you have been riding for over 50 years like I have they want me and you to go back to school and of course pay for that.
They want to guarantee their future and income and Have You and I Pay For It.
In most places there is a cap on what can be charged for this Forced Education and if they are successful in getting that removed we are in for even more trouble. How much will we have to pay to ride our motorcycles?????.
Some sad news is that ABATE and some other MROs have Rider Education Programs that they run and make money from and are also pushing for these programs.
I and others hopefully will keep you informed which ones they are and suggest you do not support them.
OH just for the record I became a Motorcycle Safety Instructor on 5/17/1981 and I Think That the courses are good for those that need them But That They Should NOT BE MANDATORY.
Hopefully the Motorcycle Riders of This Country Will Let Their Elected Officials Know How They Feel About This.
Thank You
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Old 02-23-2006, 11:43 PM   #2
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i always knew those MSF folks were up to no good.
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Old 02-23-2006, 11:48 PM   #3
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Mandatory for certain age groups I can understand.....

Kinda like Europes Tier'ed licensing..

cant find the link now but it goes something like

16 = 50cc
21 = 125cc
25 = 250cc
31 = equivalent to a 650
37+ = equivalent to a 1K

and for a Country that has nearly more motorcycles on the road then cars look at their death rates.



I dont think it should be MANDATORY here, I just think it should be applied to lower age brackets is all......
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Old 02-23-2006, 11:56 PM   #4
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i think thats gay...
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Old 02-24-2006, 12:30 AM   #5
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they cant apply it to whoever already has there licenses. grandfather clause
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Old 02-24-2006, 12:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterTrash
Got this from a friend.

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Whats up with the random capitalization?
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:07 AM   #7
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therfore ..... RacerX is a $$ ?
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:11 AM   #8
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yeah, Racer X getting his hustle on fool!
Not to mention all kickbacks he gets from Kawasaki for pushing all those ninja 250's!
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:21 AM   #9
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yeah, Racer X getting his hustle on fool!
Not to mention all kickbacks he gets from Kawasaki for pushing all those ninja 250's!

lol
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo
Mandatory for certain age groups I can understand.....

Kinda like Europes Tier'ed licensing..

cant find the link now but it goes something like

16 = 50cc
21 = 125cc
25 = 250cc
31 = equivalent to a 650
37+ = equivalent to a 1K

and for a Country that has nearly more motorcycles on the road then cars look at their death rates.



I dont think it should be MANDATORY here, I just think it should be applied to lower age brackets is all......
well, there goes my bike:laughing6
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:06 AM   #11
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i say do it.

but since everyone has to take the class, the price should be dropped to less than 50 bucks and or FREE. Then they can give some of those cops another pay cut and use it for us.



it's always about money.
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:55 AM   #12
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people need to make a living some how.
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:14 AM   #13
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taking the class to get your license isnt a big deal, its that BS remedial classes. could you imagine if you had to take drivers ed every 4 yours to get your drivers license renewed
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:30 AM   #14
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if any of you guy's have ever read the "MAIDS" study, it was done in '04 in europe. the one common factor of riders who hadn't crashed was continuing education and "training" vs 1x at basic school.

sure i'd like to see it mandatory for everybody. but it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

maids study : http://maids.acembike.org/
173 pages

synopsis
Quote:
New European Motorcycle-Crash Study Offers Lessons for All Riders
A comprehensive in-depth study of motorcycle crashes in five European countries illuminates the who, how and why of motorcycle crashes. By Art Friedman.



Though they make good illustrations, post-crash fires were relatively rare in the motorcycle acciddents studied for MAIDS.


A document being called "the most comprehensive in-depth data currently available for Powered Two Wheelers (PTWs) accidents in Europe" has been published by the European motorcycle-industry organization that funded it. Officially titled Motorcycle Accidents In Depth Study (MAIDS), the reposrt is based on investigations of 921 motorcycle accidents (including 103 fatality accidents) from study areas in France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Spain.

Because the MAIDS team used the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) methodology for on-scene in-depth motorcycle accident investigations, the report provides the sort of comprehensive results rarely seen in motorcycle safety research, and not available for North American motorcycle accidents since the Hurt Report of the early 1980s. Incorporating the OECD methodology also maintained a consistency between the groups conducting the accident investigations for MAIDS that permits the data to be compared directly with that of other researchers who use the same system, such as a Honda-funded study conducted in Thailand a few years ago.

The MAIDS researchers collected exposure data, that is, information about riders who did not crash in similar locations and situations, which permits researchers to explore how operators of vehicles that crash are different than the control group that does not crash. In the words of the MAIDS authors, "This exposure information on non-accident involved PTW riders was essential for establishing the significance of the data collected from the accident cases and the identification of potential risk factors in PTW accidents. For example, if 20% of non-accident involved PTWs in the sampling area were red, it would be significant if 60% of those PTWs involved in an accident were reported to be red, suggesting that there is an increased risk of riding a red PTW. On the other hand, if none of the PTWs in the accident sample were red, it would be an interesting finding, needing further study."

MAIDS was funded by the Association of European Motorcycle Manufacturers (ACEM) with support from the European Commission and other partners. We wish the American motorcycle industry would follow the lead of its European counterparts.

Although there are significant differences in the roadway structures, cultures, cars, PTWs (there were more scooters in the crashes studied than we'd expect in an American study, for example), and other factors between the European countries where the study was conducted and the United States or other places, there still seem to be many findings in the MAIDS report that are useful and probably relevant to American riders. Some of the revelevant finds we say in the report follow.

Didn't See Him

In half of the collision accidents, the driver of the other vehicle was judged to have made the primary error that caused the crash, and that driver failed to "perceive" the motorcyclist in 70 percent of the two-vehicle collisions. In 37 percent of the the accidents with a "partner," it was the motorcyclist who created the problem. As other research has concluded, drivers with motorcycling experience are more likely to see and avoid motorcyclists. The object motorcyclists most often collided with were passenger cars, so the two-vehicle accident is the major concern for motorcyclists, at least in Europe. The failure of drivers to see motorcyclists reinforces the need for motorcyclists to dress conspicuously, and in this study as in others, riders wearing dark clothing were more likely to crash than others. A recent study in New Zealand found that simply wearing a white helmet significantly reduces the likelihood of a crash.

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Old 02-24-2006, 07:33 AM   #15
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Solo Crashes Too

Plenty of riders crashed by themselves, though. The second most common point of impact was "the roadway" itself. Yes, some of these non-collision accidents happened as the rider attempted to avoid hitting a car, but plenty of riders managed to crash all by themselves. In rural areas, over half the accidents studied happened without the involvement of another vehicle. This still leaves plenty of opportunity for serious injuries from curbs and roadside "furniture," especially those barriers intended to corral out-of-control cars. The authors note that collisions with such barriers often results in "serious lower extremity and spinal injuries as well as serious head injuries."

Mistakes Riders Make

Rider inattention was cited in 10.6 percent of the crashes. Both riders and drivers "failed to account for visual obstructions" in as many as a third of the accident. A parked truck, roadside bushes or glare can hide something, and motorcyclists need to allow for the possibility that it might be there. They also need to realize that even a small object can block a drivers view of them and adjust their lane position to be seen or accommodate the possibility that the driver might pull in front of them.

Fewer Drinkers, But They Still Crash More

Studies and statistics from other studies around the world has shown that as many as half of the crashers and motorcycle fatalities involved riders who had been drinking, but in the MAIDS research, only 5 percent of the crashers had been drinking. However, drinkers were still determinded to crash 2.7 times more frequently than sober types. Crashing motorcyclists were also more likely to have been drinking than the drivers they collided with.

You Need a License

Getting the proper license to ride what you're astride means that you are less likely to crash. Riders with no licenses or improper licenses crashed more frequently than riders who were properly licensed for what they were riding. This reiterates the conclusions of other studies from other countries, including the U.S.

Training, Experience and Familiarity Work for You

Riders who took some sort of rider training were more likely to try some sort of avoidance maneuver, such as braking or swerving. Untrained riders were more likely to sit there and crash without doing anything to prevent it. Riding experience—both total and on the bike being ridden— worked in the rider's favor, in terms of fewer crashes. A quarter (24.2%) of the accidents studied involved riders with less than six months experience. Inexperienced riders were also more likely to do something that caused the accident. As other studies have found, you are in more danger on a bike that is new to you (which is bad news for motorcycle testers—or at least an excuse).


Skills Aren't Always Enough, However

The study concludes that "73.1% of all PTW riders attempted some form of collision avoidance immediately prior to impact. Of these, 32% experienced some type of loss of control during the manoeuvre." It also noted that the accident scenarios often presented situations that, once encountered, were beyond the avoidance skills of the vast majority of street riders.

So Dress for the Crash

As with other studies, the MAIDS researchers found that helmets do a good job of protecting their users, providing they fit and fasten them properly. Since this was Europe, 90 percent of the crashers were wearing helmets, and they did a good job—when they stayed on. However, 9 percent of the helmeted riders lost their helmets during the crash, either because they didn't fit properly, weren't fastened properly, or were damaged during the crash. Other protective gear also did a good job of attenuating the most common injuries—to arms and legs—though such gear didn't prevent all injuries.

How Hard Do You Hit?

The authors note that the typical accident speed was modest. In 70 percent of the crashes, the rider hit the car or other object at under 30 mph. Of course, the severity of injuries went up with crash speed. However, speed by itself didn't turn out to be a huge factor in crash causation. The report says: "There were relatively few cases in which excess speed was an issue related to accident causation," but notes that a speed differential—going either faster or slower than nearby traffic—was a contributing factor in 18 percent of the crashes.

Danger Zones

The study found that 90 percent of all threats were in front of the riders who crashed as a result of them. This correlates with other studies, including Hurt.

Over half the accidents happened in intersections. 72% of the accidents took place in urban areas, and a motorcycle was more likely to collide with a passenger car in an urban area (64% of crashes) than in a rural area, where crashes with cars were 47% of the crashes.

Weather was deemed to be a factor in 7.5% of the accidents.

"Roadway design defects" caused or contributed to the crashes 3% of the time.

What Kind of Bikes Crash Most?

The only type of bike that was over-represented in the MAIDS data was "modified conventional street motorcycles." Engine size also didn't show up as a risk factor, which checks with other studies that have used exposure data. There were not enough bikes equipped with anti-lock brakes to draw any conclusion about their effectiveness. Of course, cruisers and choppers are less common in Europe than in America.

How About Old Guys?

Good news for typical cruiser riders: Riders aged 41 to 55 crashed less frequently than the exposure data said they should, but as with previous studies youth and enthusiasm were dangerous. Riders between 18 and 25 years of age crashed more than their fair share. In America, riders over 40 have been showing up as a larger percentage of the crash victims, and since there is no exposure data, there has been concern that they are over-represented. The MAIDS study suggests that issue is not their age, though there may be cultural or other differences that make the situation different. At least age by itself doen't make you unsafe.

But Watch That Passenger

In 9 percent of the accidents where a passenger was being carried, the passenger shifted his or her weight and thereby contributed to the accident.

Check Your Tires and Brakes

Tire failure was the only technical failure that made a real blip in the MAIDS data, at 3.6%. Brake problems were cited in 1.2% of the accidents.

The complete 173-page report can be downloaded
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuknrobert
i say do it.

but since everyone has to take the class, the price should be dropped to less than 50 bucks and or FREE. Then they can give some of those cops another pay cut and use it for us.



it's always about money.
it's all about state funding, it is free in some states, over $400 in others.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:49 AM   #17
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i agree 100% with getting it done, but if it comes down to EVERYONE being forced to take it, where does the money come from for that?

i still think everyone should take it. think about this:

you drive so much every week, what's wrong with re-learning something you do every day? i would mind having to take the course, i mean it would be a hassle... but if it's once every four years, big deal. 3 days out of 1461. i think you can spare that time...

so, in conclusion... i say go for it. but make bill gates pay.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:44 AM   #18
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4yrs is a bit much, but 6 or 8 or 5 sound more realistic.
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Old 02-25-2006, 12:42 PM   #19
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IMO they should make all drivers and riders licenses as had to get as a pilots license. Kids these days are more distracted(gotta check cell or stuck to side of head every second of the day) and less responsible.:icon_bigg
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Old 02-25-2006, 12:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Whats up with the random capitalization?
I would think he did it to emphasize portions of the read.
as said earlier, its not me, but sent to me and if you read it, you will see his use of capitals are where he wanted them, not random, but placed as he wanted I'm sure.
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