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Old 05-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #1
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Riding Position Critic's Welcome

Alright people, I know I am opening up a can of worms here but I want some opinions. As I try to go faster I am starting to notice that my body position is more and more important. So i have been trying all kinds of positions through the same corners to see what feels best, in doing that I have noticed some stuff. I moved pegs, I did all kinds of to get more comfortable. So here is what I have.....

I think a general statement would be that I need to move my head / upper body further off the bike? But I feel like I am jacked up way over the handle bars so that doesn't feel right. What can I do to fix this? What needs to change?
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:03 AM   #2
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it looks like you have a little more lean angle possible
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:03 AM   #3
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Man, folks worry too much about "proper" riding position imho. Especially all the "experts" that are going to pop in here and tell you what you're doing "wrong". Take a look at some of the really fast world class racers and see what they're riding position looks like- you'll see some variances like fingerprints. There are a lot of really fast World Champions that some of these "experts" in instruction will tell you are riding "wrong"...

Pictures don't really give a clear enough picture of what to change other than a quick snapshot of what you happened to be doing at that particular point in time; the real story is told when an experienced instructor rides with you and offers feedback.

If you're not comfortable in that position that you're picturing here, then change it until you are comfortable.

As far as how you look in these pics, I'd say it "looks" just fine- you're the one that has to ride though, and you're the one that has to be comfortable. Everyone's riding position changes over time with seat time especially when they're new to the sport of riding on the track.

Get ready for the peanut gallery to chime in here
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post

Get ready for the peanut gallery to chime in here
Yeah I kinda like getting people going on like this though! The stuff you get back is always fun to read through!

I agree with you on the riding style, I guess that is why it is hard to figure out what is "right" and what is "wrong".

What do you strive to achieve is perhaps a better question. Is it where you can get on the gas the soonest without going to slow into the corner... what is the correct formula? Fast? Fast means a lot of things to me... Fast into the corner, on the gas early. Slow into a corner onto the gas too soon... What riding position helps you to get into the corner the fastest and on the gas the earliest without running of the track? Is it all based on the rider or are there things you can do to make it easier on yourself from a riding position perspective? That is what I should have really asked.

When I follow you "fast" guys, for every guy I follow I see a different style. So what elements of body positioning are important? There has to be a common set of things to do right?
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:12 AM   #5
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Once in 1998, I was bench racing with Ben Spies at Oak Hill during a mini endurance race. My teammate, ever the posture scholar, suggested to Ben that he tuck his elbows in. We see how that turned out, eh?


The below is from another thread, but it's is fitting here, so I'll use it:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK
Don't listen to someone trying to tell you what to look like on the bike. That will come naturally as you get better, and not everyone will look the same. If you want to be a posuer, then thats another story.


Originally Posted by Racer997
The vast majority of people who have poor body poisition on a bike have it because they need more seat time. You can teach body poisition all you want, but the only way to learn it is to ride and ride often.

Nice flowers, by the way.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
it looks like you have a little more lean angle possible
Thats me trying to get over my crash, I am usually cranking it over much more. Later in the day I was in full but these were taken early. I think for the most part I could go over quite a bit more than I am in these.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer997 View Post
Once in 1998, I was bench racing with Ben Spies at Oak Hill during a mini endurance race. My teammate, ever the posture scholar, suggested to Ben that he tuck his elbows in. We see how that turned out, eh?


The below is from another thread, but it's is fitting here, so I'll use it:

Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK
Don't listen to someone trying to tell you what to look like on the bike. That will come naturally as you get better, and not everyone will look the same. If you want to be a posuer, then thats another story.


Originally Posted by Racer997
The vast majority of people who have poor body poisition on a bike have it because they need more seat time. You can teach body poisition all you want, but the only way to learn it is to ride and ride often.

Nice flowers, by the way.
+1

Just go ride as often as possible and work on being SMOOTH. The smoother you are the faster you'll go and with less and less effort.

Bluebonnets FTW
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timme' View Post
What do you strive to achieve is perhaps a better question. Is it where you can get on the gas the soonest without going to slow into the corner... what is the correct formula? Fast? Fast means a lot of things to me... Fast into the corner, on the gas early. Slow into a corner onto the gas too soon... What riding position helps you to get into the corner the fastest and on the gas the earliest without running of the track? Is it all based on the rider or are there things you can do to make it easier on yourself from a riding position perspective? That is what I should have really asked.

When I follow you "fast" guys, for every guy I follow I see a different style. So what elements of body positioning are important? There has to be a common set of things to do right?
For the easy answers, and this is a shameless plug but sincere advice, sign up for our Advanced Rider School on the 9th at TWS (Texas World Speedway)- I guarantee results. I'll pair you up with one of our incredibly experienced racer instructors and get you on the right track.

There is no hard/ fast answer to your question- each corner is approached in a different way than the others as far as setting body position, weighting the pegs, where you look; all this influences body position.

One thing I try to do consistently regarding body position (for me) is to get completely set before I get in to the corner but not too early. This means feet set (and not dancing on the pegs, which is a bad habit of mine), try for "hand over fist" and look well through the corner. Some riders/ racers like to hang off a bunch, some not so much, some not at all. I've seen and raced with some really fast 's that don't get their off the seat at all, hardly ever drag a knee, and look a bit "crossed up" in the corner... yet they're club champions and AMA racers

But if this is purely for entertainment for you, you'll get what you ask for!

And +1 to Keith and Linz's advice above (Racer997)
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Last edited by tomLSTD; 05-01-2009 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
it looks like you have a little more lean angle possible
Knowing nothing of the corner he's in, I wouldn't make a suggestion on lean angle. Based on the information I have, which is nothing, this might be the best line and lean for the corner.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
One thing I try to do consistently regarding body position (for me) is to get completely set before I get in to the corner but not too early. This means feet set (and not dancing on the pegs, which is a bad habit of mine), try for "hand over fist" and look well through the corner. Some riders/ racers like to hang off a bunch, some not so much, some not at all. I've seen and raced with some really fast 's that don't get their off the seat at all, hardly ever drag a knee, and look a bit "crossed up" in the corner... yet they're club champions and AMA racers

But if this is purely for entertainment for you, you'll get what you ask for!
Well i wouldn't say pure entertainment but I think, for me anyways, confidence is a huge thing. So if I post this stuff up and for the most part everyone says yeah jerk off you look good but do this or do that it builds my confidence. For me right now I think that is what I need more than anything. So entertaining ahhh, ego boost yes, confidence boost definate!

I was totally going to sign up for the advanced rider thing on Sunday at ECR... And I am planning on it for the 9th at TWS (Texas World Speedway) so I am gonna hold you to your word brotha man!
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:49 AM   #11
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Knowing nothing of the corner he's in, I wouldn't make a suggestion on lean angle. Based on the information I have, which is nothing, this might be the best line and lean for the corner.
It is the hair-pin corner at the top of the hill, running counter-clockwise from hot pit road.. I think it is turn 6 or if you count the kink before it 7.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:59 AM   #12
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If it were my bike I'd rotate the clip ons forward about 10-15*.

As for body position, looks fine. How do you feel in that position?

Quit all the changing things around, stay consistent, relax and have fun.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
If it were my bike I'd rotate the clip ons forward about 10-15*.

As for body position, looks fine. How do you feel in that position?

Quit all the changing things around, stay consistent, relax and have fun.
Now there is advice from one fast !!
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:19 AM   #14
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great info in here. Subscribed.

I too have wondered how the same exact body position can work for everyone, doesn't make sense, everybody is different. Looks like seat time and relaxing is the way to go. Carry on!
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
If it were my bike I'd rotate the clip ons forward about 10-15*.

As for body position, looks fine. How do you feel in that position?

Quit all the changing things around, stay consistent, relax and have fun.
Now that's the best thing I have heard all day! Did not even consider rotating the clip ons!

I don't feel good in hardly any position when I try to go fast, I think that is the problem! If i push back on the seat the front feels light and I feel like I am not in control. If I am up on the tank I feel like I am hanging over the bars. When I don't think about it I couldn't tell you what the I am doing I admit my brain is the problem, I am an over analyzer for sure
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:30 AM   #16
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:22 PM   #17
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whatever position lets you go fast and stay comfortable, is the CORRECT body position.

there's always a good baseline when it comes to anything, even body position....but it's exactly what it is, a baseline. you make adjustments to it which yields positive results. if you are changing everything up, with no results or negative results....obviously you are doing something wrong.

try not to focus too much about body position and worry about going fast.....all the dominoes will fall sooner or later.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:34 PM   #18
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go ride a mini it sure teaches u waht not to do

not much on advice but it does help show you what not to do. also teached you how to set your corner speed since there are no brakes and that allows you to get on the gas sooner. (go slow to go fast) I finally seen the light
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:34 PM   #19
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btw way, i know tom and ralph!
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Man, folks worry too much about "proper" riding position imho. Especially all the "experts" that are going to pop in here and tell you what you're doing "wrong". Take a look at some of the really fast world class racers and see what they're riding position looks like- you'll see some variances like fingerprints. There are a lot of really fast World Champions that some of these "experts" in instruction will tell you are riding "wrong"...

Pictures don't really give a clear enough picture of what to change other than a quick snapshot of what you happened to be doing at that particular point in time; the real story is told when an experienced instructor rides with you and offers feedback.

If you're not comfortable in that position that you're picturing here, then change it until you are comfortable.

As far as how you look in these pics, I'd say it "looks" just fine- you're the one that has to ride though, and you're the one that has to be comfortable. Everyone's riding position changes over time with seat time especially when they're new to the sport of riding on the track.

Get ready for the peanut gallery to chime in here
Exactly! I've noticed that everyone seems worried about "proper" body position. Just because Rossi and Stoner ride a certain way, doesn't mean it will work for you. For the most part, do whatever feels comfortable to YOU.
Just look at Mick Doohan...many "experts" on here would say his body position was horribly wrong, but with 5 consecutive 500gp world championships, I think it worked alright for him.
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