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Old 04-29-2009, 01:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
To add to the original question...

Why are Harleys, so expensive?

Not putting anybody's ride down, I'm just saying...
They are pretty low tech, with lower end suspension, old technology motor design.
They do not use alot of high zoot materials, like carbon fiber or magnesium.
They don't really need to handle extreme forces like those generated by hard cornering and big horsepower, so they don't need computer designed frames and swingarms.

I like Harleys and in fact owned one for 7 years. Great bike.
But, I still don't get why they cost so damned much.
Other than, "Because they do".
Mainly because they've been able to get that much for them.

Now that the economy is tanking, and every idiot yuppy who was going to buy a geezer glide, has, we should start to see HD bring their pricing to a more competitive level.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
To add to the original question...

Why are Harleys, so expensive?

Not putting anybody's ride down, I'm just saying...
They are pretty low tech, with lower end suspension, old technology motor design.
They do not use alot of high zoot materials, like carbon fiber or magnesium.
They don't really need to handle extreme forces like those generated by hard cornering and big horsepower, so they don't need computer designed frames and swingarms.

I like Harleys and in fact owned one for 7 years. Great bike.
But, I still don't get why they cost so damned much.
Other than, "Because they do".
They are marketing machine. I can't think of a company that has done a better job at marketing the "coolness" factor of a harley. I mean why would anyone want a ultra classic over a wing. The wing's motor is almost TWICE as good, the bags or all automatic, the stereo is 4 times as good(never had a piglet trying to give me sound ordinance violation tickent on a harley but at least 6 or 7 times on the wing. The conering is dang near a sportbike where as on a ultra you have to work to make it turn in and it will scrap way too easy on a lean. They do have looks going for them but that only goes so far.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:23 PM   #43
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i'd look funny dressed up like a pirate on the goldwing....got go HD
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
To add to the original question...

Why are Harleys, so expensive?

Not putting anybody's ride down, I'm just saying...
They are pretty low tech, with lower end suspension, old technology motor design.
They do not use alot of high zoot materials, like carbon fiber or magnesium.
They don't really need to handle extreme forces like those generated by hard cornering and big horsepower, so they don't need computer designed frames and swingarms.

I like Harleys and in fact owned one for 7 years. Great bike.
But, I still don't get why they cost so damned much.
Other than, "Because they do".
ALL harley parts are actually computer designed and tested. the motors are higher tech than they look. just because they don't make a lot of power and are air cooled doesn't mean there isn't technology there. their ecu's are also very advanced. i can modify fuel and ignition maps for each cylinder individually per gear with nothing but a reflash, not to mention the inclusion of two 02 sensors, so the ecu is able to run in a closed loop format (something the metrics still haven't done on a wide scale, the new cbr's just started doing that for example). every part you see on a harley is metal. from the switch housings, headlight bucket, fenders, tank, etc. most japanese cruisers are all plastic. on a harley the chrome is chrome, not shiny plastic. most non-sheetmetal parts on a harley are also powdercoated, not painted, for increased durability and appearance.

i agree on your opinion about the suspension though, leave a LOT to be desired, but i had full ohlins on my last bike, so i'm a little spoiled as well.

there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me here, but there is a lot more thought put into building and designing a harley than with a lot of other bikes. the quality, compared to japanese cruisers, is much higher on a harley.

now, i'm not saying harley is the end all be all of motorcycles, but they are a very high quality motorcycle, and as such, come with a price to match. but if you compare their msrp's to comparably equipped japanese bikes, and even victorys, you'll see that HD's prices are actually very similar, if not cheaper than the competition.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:51 PM   #45
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ALL harley parts are actually computer designed and tested. the motors are higher tech than they look. just because they don't make a lot of power and are air cooled doesn't mean there isn't technology there. their ecu's are also very advanced. i can modify fuel and ignition maps for each cylinder individually per gear with nothing but a reflash, not to mention the inclusion of two 02 sensors, so the ecu is able to run in a closed loop format (something the metrics still haven't done on a wide scale, the new cbr's just started doing that for example). every part you see on a harley is metal. from the switch housings, headlight bucket, fenders, tank, etc. most japanese cruisers are all plastic. on a harley the chrome is chrome, not shiny plastic. most non-sheetmetal parts on a harley are also powdercoated, not painted, for increased durability and appearance.

i agree on your opinion about the suspension though, leave a LOT to be desired, but i had full ohlins on my last bike, so i'm a little spoiled as well.

there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me here, but there is a lot more thought put into building and designing a harley than with a lot of other bikes. the quality, compared to japanese cruisers, is much higher on a harley.

now, i'm not saying harley is the end all be all of motorcycles, but they are a very high quality motorcycle, and as such, come with a price to match. but if you compare their msrp's to comparably equipped japanese bikes, and even victorys, you'll see that HD's prices are actually very similar, if not cheaper than the competition.

So are you saying people are buying harleys just for looks?
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:55 PM   #46
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So what are you really trying to say, redux? That you are a real motorcyclist, high and holy above all others? Especially if all others includes successful people with enough expendable income to buy a chopper?
My question was why are they so expensive. And I got the answer. I do not see myself anywhere close to "high" I would place my skill to somewhere between beginner and intermediate. Something for everybody.

If someone wants to spend money on X, more power to them.

I spend whatever expendable income I have on, lets assume, on Russian one-inside-another dolls. If somebody was to ask why are they so much more expensive compared to Barbies you would buy at Wal-Mart, I would probably explain the carving process, the handy-work, and the time it takes to make one. And it's a culture thing.

In this case, the choppers are either A. all hand-made. or B. mass-produced fad. Turns out its mostly the later.

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Old 04-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #47
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:59 PM   #48
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i'm j/k. i'd love to rock around on a wing. I roll my dad's BMW 1150rt around corpus when I go back home.
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #49
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i can't speak for others but i bought my harley for several reasons...
1. more comfortable than my sportbikes for my wife.
2. higher build quality than the hondas and yamahas i looked at.
3. more reliable than the kawasaki vulcans i looked at
4. and yeah, the looks. it had the old school look that i wanted. the other brands try to copy it, but they just don't get it right, they always end up looking like what they are....copys. i wanted the real thing. so i bought the harley.

the performance is more than enough for me to have fun with (13.0 1/4 mile stock), there are TONS of aftermarket parts to make it anything i want, the sound and the heritage played a small part as well. i figured if i was going to get a cruiser, i was going to get THE cruiser.

the one problem with owning a harley is everyone automatically assumes you're the typical harley buyer, weekend-warrior type, poser, rub, whatever you want to call it.
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:32 PM   #50
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I thought that Harleys are far from Choppers.

Choppers were supposed to be bare, with one the parts that are absolutely necessary for the bike to move, so no/minimal light and signals, no gauges, no back seat, etc.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:00 PM   #51
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there are a lot of kits you could buy and build it yourself. JSR Customs for one. 13K unassembled and unpainted. You spend your time putting that thing together and painting it and tell me what your time is worth. And when its finished and someone wanted to buy it from you, would you sell it for what the parts cost? I damm sure wouldn't.






Side note: I'll have one of them JSR Customs soon!!
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:03 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux View Post
I thought that Harleys are far from Choppers.

Choppers were supposed to be bare, with one the parts that are absolutely necessary for the bike to move, so no/minimal light and signals, no gauges, no back seat, etc.
choppers is a very general term. it used to mean stripped down "chopped-up" harleys built for style and performance. they have mainly morphed in to the bright colored, over-chromed, over-stretched, over-billeted, garage art. there are still guys out there building real old school choppers.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:11 PM   #53
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Quote:
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i can't speak for others but i bought my harley for several reasons...
1. more comfortable than my sportbikes for my wife.
2. higher build quality than the hondas and yamahas i looked at.
Better than the wing? I don't think so. I have seen goldwings with over 200,000 miles on them with only minor maintenance. Also, the goldwing copied noone it is its own bike. Have you rode a 2000 or new goldwing? Far as speed I can wax any harley unless they dumb SERIOUS money into the motor. And the wing will cruise I mean cruise easy at 120 top speed 138. And btw your wife would love the wing too.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:19 PM   #54
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Quote:
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ALL harley parts are actually computer designed and tested. the motors are higher tech than they look. just because they don't make a lot of power and are air cooled doesn't mean there isn't technology there. their ecu's are also very advanced. i can modify fuel and ignition maps for each cylinder individually per gear with nothing but a reflash, not to mention the inclusion of two 02 sensors, so the ecu is able to run in a closed loop format (something the metrics still haven't done on a wide scale, the new cbr's just started doing that for example). every part you see on a harley is metal. from the switch housings, headlight bucket, fenders, tank, etc. most japanese cruisers are all plastic. on a harley the chrome is chrome, not shiny plastic. most non-sheetmetal parts on a harley are also powdercoated, not painted, for increased durability and appearance.

i agree on your opinion about the suspension though, leave a LOT to be desired, but i had full ohlins on my last bike, so i'm a little spoiled as well.

there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me here, but there is a lot more thought put into building and designing a harley than with a lot of other bikes. the quality, compared to japanese cruisers, is much higher on a harley.

now, i'm not saying harley is the end all be all of motorcycles, but they are a very high quality motorcycle, and as such, come with a price to match. but if you compare their msrp's to comparably equipped japanese bikes, and even victorys, you'll see that HD's prices are actually very similar, if not cheaper than the competition.

Some of the things that you listed about Harleys, like everything being made from metal, can be viewed as a negative. One of the main factors in the handling qualities of a bik, is weight. The bikes have a lot of plastic because it weighs less, which leads to better handling.
Tanks are all metal too, but they handle like... tanks.

Motors higher tech than they look? Well, a little maybe, but cmon they are air cooled, pushrod, v-twins from the 1930's.

I trust what you said about the fuel injection is true, and I'm sure the European/Japanese company that makes it worked hard to make it so good.

The quality thing is where you lost me. Harley has come a long way, but it was because they got together with the bike makers and learned to build good engines.

In any case don't take offense. I'm not putting Harley or their customers down in any way. I had one, loved it, moved on to something new.
They are great bikes and if I were to get another cruiser it would be Harley, without a doubt.
But I still say they are overpriced, largely, as was said before, because they are marketing "cool". The metric cruisers are over priced because they are riding Harley's coat tails.

When you look at the technology and materials in a modern sportbike, compared to a modern cruiser. Assuming the sportbikes are priced reasionably, the cruisers should cost around $8,000.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:25 PM   #55
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the other brands try to copy it, but they just don't get it right, they always end up looking like what they are....copys. i wanted the real thing. so i bought the harley.

the one problem with owning a harley is everyone automatically assumes you're the typical harley buyer, weekend-warrior type, poser, rub, whatever you want to call it.
I have no problem with Harleys per say. In fact, I really like the Night Train (and may just get one)!!

What I get a chuckle out of is how they (Harley owners) think that a "Harley is the Real Thing", and everything else is a copy. It's hilarious, actually.

I mean, wtf? A cruiser is a cruiser, man. It's a type of bike, not a brand name. Typical Harley buyer seem to be the ones that think a Harley is the real thing, as compared to any other bike out there, and all the quips against them (be it in jest, envy, or ridicule) can be attributed towards this attitude Harley owners have upon others.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:28 PM   #56
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Better than the wing? I don't think so. I have seen goldwings with over 200,000 miles on them with only minor maintenance. Also, the goldwing copied noone it is its own bike. Have you rode a 2000 or new goldwing? Far as speed I can wax any harley unless they dumb SERIOUS money into the motor. And the wing will cruise I mean cruise easy at 120 top speed 138. And btw your wife would love the wing too.
i wasn't in the market for a wing, so i wasn't looking at those. i was looking at cruisers, not tourers. different segment. both the ultra and the wing are excellent bikes. it just comes down to personal preference.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
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ALL harley parts are actually computer designed and tested. the motors are higher tech than they look. just because they don't make a lot of power and are air cooled doesn't mean there isn't technology there. their ecu's are also very advanced. i can modify fuel and ignition maps for each cylinder individually per gear with nothing but a reflash, not to mention the inclusion of two 02 sensors, so the ecu is able to run in a closed loop format (something the metrics still haven't done on a wide scale, the new cbr's just started doing that for example). every part you see on a harley is metal. from the switch housings, headlight bucket, fenders, tank, etc. most japanese cruisers are all plastic. on a harley the chrome is chrome, not shiny plastic. most non-sheetmetal parts on a harley are also powdercoated, not painted, for increased durability and appearance.

i agree on your opinion about the suspension though, leave a LOT to be desired, but i had full ohlins on my last bike, so i'm a little spoiled as well.

there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me here, but there is a lot more thought put into building and designing a harley than with a lot of other bikes. the quality, compared to japanese cruisers, is much higher on a harley.

now, i'm not saying harley is the end all be all of motorcycles, but they are a very high quality motorcycle, and as such, come with a price to match. but if you compare their msrp's to comparably equipped japanese bikes, and even victorys, you'll see that HD's prices are actually very similar, if not cheaper than the competition.
For the most part, I agree with you here.

The newer Harleys are alot better quality than public perception (which is based on infamous Harleys of years gone by).
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:38 PM   #58
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:41 PM   #59
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:46 PM   #60
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NO i was focusing on the Japanese sport bikes cost...im not ignorant enough to believe anythign is american. My vrod is german with parts from all over...
Dude - half the on your bike wasnt there when it left the factory....of COURSE the parts are from all over...., some of em are total one-off fabrications.
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