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Old 04-30-2009, 03:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshotwound View Post
You did better than me, I only get one track day out of my 003's.
one trackday on a set of tires? Are you guys swapping them out after the yellow lines in the rubber dissappear? Good gawd that must be expensive if you run through a set of tires in one trackday.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post
one trackday on a set of tires? Are you guys swapping them out after the yellow lines in the rubber dissappear? Good gawd that must be expensive if you run through a set of tires in one trackday.
depends which track.....but if i run every session of a trackday and pushing 110% of my skill level, i will toast the rear tire by the end of the day. if i'm just out cruising and running 80-90% of my skill level, i can make the tire last 2, maybe 3 days max.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
depends which track.....but if i run every session of a trackday and pushing 110% of my skill level, i will toast the rear tire by the end of the day. if i'm just out cruising and running 80-90% of my skill level, i can make the tire last 2, maybe 3 days max.
I have been wondering about this! As I have gotten faster seems like the tire wear isn't the issue so much, is it the heat cycles? I don't have tire warmers YET! Will next time I see John, maybe this weekend at ECR.

I baked the shiiiiiiizzzz out of my last set of tires after only two days... How did I know? Tucked the front on a very slow corner... I have to blame the tire cause I don't make mistakes seriously though had to be the tire.

So is it really the case that you smoke a set of tires in a weekend? I know John will tell you absolutely, but what do you other folks say. No offense John, I got nothing but respect for ya! Just curious how often other folks are swaping them out....
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timme' View Post
I have been wondering about this! As I have gotten faster seems like the tire wear isn't the issue so much, is it the heat cycles? I don't have tire warmers YET! Will next time I see John, maybe this weekend at ECR.

I baked the shiiiiiiizzzz out of my last set of tires after only two days... How did I know? Tucked the front on a very slow corner... I have to blame the tire cause I don't make mistakes seriously though had to be the tire.

So is it really the case that you smoke a set of tires in a weekend? I know John will tell you absolutely, but what do you other folks say. No offense John, I got nothing but respect for ya! Just curious how often other folks are swaping them out....


There are a # of variables to this question...

Weight
Bike size
Track
Suspension setup
Tire pressure


Some people on here are tyrefryers
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:52 PM   #25
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Some people on here are tyrefryers
Yeah I get that... I would also think it has a ton to do with the particular tyres.

The real heart of this question is all about me obviously.... I am trying to determine why my first set of tyres lasted 5 trackdays, and my second lasted 1 and 1/2. Mostly so I don't make the same mistake again... Looking at the tyre doesn't necessarily tell you it is cooked, so how do you know until you crash?

I can feel when the tyres are cold and not sticky, is it the same feeling or what? With the Michelin, thing just let go.... is that the only way to know your tyres are baked? Can't be.... or at least I hope it isn't or this is going to be a painful season
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:55 PM   #26
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yeah, I guess I didn't take that into consideration. Good thing I'm slow, b/c I can make a rear last 3 days and a front 5 days. BT002's
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:56 PM   #27
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Well... Did you check the wear? There are wearbars/indicators in the tread. Were the tires discolored (specifically blue)? What tires gave out on you? Just because you went down doesn't mean the tires were toast. I highsided on a brand new set of tires once.
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:02 PM   #28
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well....you will know the tire is no good when it looks like a set of slicks on the sidewalls.....or gettin close to lookin like a slick anyways.

also some tire brands will give you warnings that a tire is about to go (even if there is still tread left). for example pirelli's....when they are cooked, they will start moving around under ya a lot (not necessarily sliding, just the carcass feels like it is flexing a lot more than when you slapped them on new). or if the rear starts sliding all over the place....and it ain't your tire pressure.....it's time to put a new one on.
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timme' View Post
Yeah I get that... I would also think it has a ton to do with the particular tyres.

The real heart of this question is all about me obviously.... I am trying to determine why my first set of tyres lasted 5 trackdays, and my second lasted 1 and 1/2. Mostly so I don't make the same mistake again... Looking at the tyre doesn't necessarily tell you it is cooked, so how do you know until you crash?

I can feel when the tyres are cold and not sticky, is it the same feeling or what? With the Michelin, thing just let go.... is that the only way to know your tyres are baked? Can't be.... or at least I hope it isn't or this is going to be a painful season
well it all depends on your pace. if you are getting quicker and quicker, means you are trying harder and harder......when you try harder, you essentially are getting on the throttle harder and coming into corners a little hotter.....so you are pushing on the tire more.

so you will start to see tires not lasting as long as a result of gaining speed. speed costs money one way or another.

try some different brands of tires and see what fits your riding best. if you want a sticky icky tire....you need to get on some PIRELLI'S!!!
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:13 PM   #30
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try some different brands of tires and see what fits your riding best. if you want a sticky icky tire....you need to get on some PIRELLI'S!!!
I am on the Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa Pro's and they are sooo sweet. But now I am all nervous that after 2 track days I have cooked them....
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:15 PM   #31
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At least 2 on a rear 003 med and 3ish on the same front. I have done 3 sprints and 1 track day running level 4 and every level 1 session on my current set. I have one more day on the rear. I am 250lbs. I am sure weight plays a roll. I'd probably get more if I went to a hard coumpound.
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
Well... Did you check the wear? There are wearbars/indicators in the tread. Were the tires discolored (specifically blue)? What tires gave out on you? Just because you went down doesn't mean the tires were toast. I highsided on a brand new set of tires once.
He tucked the front on a set of Michelins.

Tire wear really runs the gammot. I have guys that wera tires fast because they do not check pressures. I have guys that wear the fast because thier setup is messed up. Also keep in mind your compounds choices. It is starting to get hotter now. It is time to start thinking about stepping up the hardness of the rear compounds. Also, consider the tracks you ride at. For example, I don't like the hard compound rear at MSRH, it will be prone to cold tear because the track does not offer a lot of mechanical grip. That means it does not work the tire very hard. That also means it requires lower pressures or a faster pace to keep the tire working properly. The opposite situation exists at TWS (Texas World Speedway). This track is hard on tires, esspecially if you have a decent pace, i.e. faster than a 1:54...ish. At TWS (Texas World Speedway) the harder compounds work great. The tire developes a lot of heat, esspecially on the left side. This does wear the tire unevenly, but it is just a product of the track. I guess the question then is asked "Well if I have a hard compound rear should I run at MSRH?" The answer is sure, just be mindful of your pressures, and call your respective tire guy for tire pressure suggestions. Obviously call me for Pirelli & Bridgestone data.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timme' View Post
I am on the Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa Pro's and they are sooo sweet. But now I am all nervous that after 2 track days I have cooked them....
get some warmers and then buy a set of diablo supercorsas......you'll be in for a better treat!
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:17 AM   #34
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Pirelli has always been like that- you get great feel and traction and then they wear a bit and get greasy. I haven't ridden any this year because the Bridgestones are just too good to change out of, so maybe it's different now- John says that guys ARE getting more life out of them now.

Once your pace quickens, tires are naturally going to wear faster. Now with middle weight bikes making the hp that the liter bikes of just a few years ago were making, you'll notice more issues with rear tire wear too.

I've consistently gotten more tire life out of the Bridgestone 003, 002PRO, and GP250 slicks than any other tire brand out there. They're also the least expensive

Couple of things:
1. You have to stay on top of your tire pressures all day
2. You have to pay attention to how your tires are wearing and get support from John when you see something that you don't like
3. You MUST use fresh rubber!
4. If you're using tire warmers, make sure the wheel is warm, not just the tire before you push your lap times- the tires will wear more for sure
5. Get your suspension set by someone who knows that they're doing like Motorcycles Unlimited. Any yahoo who can talk a good game about suspension can make you think they know what they're doing, but really, if they knew what they were doing would they do it for free? Besides, who can't afford $35 to have a pro at Motorcycles Unlimited set up their bike? If you can't afford that, you need to re-consider your hobbies.

Tim, weren't you running some really old Michelin take-offs when you tucked the front?
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:57 AM   #35
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:29 AM   #36
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Tim, weren't you running some really old Michelin take-offs when you tucked the front?
Actually no, they were only 1 1/2 track days old. To get those tyres to where I felt right on them I dropped the rear pressure to like 24ish cold and the front to like 25ish cold. They finally felt so so then. I didn't / don't (until last night thanks John!) have tyre warmers. So hot, I was trying to get somewhere around 30 front and 28 - 29 rear. The problem was that I just couldn't get the tyres to heat up (using laser surface temp gauge) or get the pressure up. I simply was not getting the front tyre to heat up beyond 160F surface temperature, so I dropped a little more out of the front..... I think that is what killed it. It felt wishy washy until I did that, I probably should have done some suspension stuff too. I bought these tyres early morning at Cresent like 2/3 months prior to OHR (aka whatever the last TTD at Cresent was last year). I bet I "cooked" the tyres that day, cause once they were set I left them alone so who knows what they did as the day heated up! Rookie mistake for sure

When I got to OHR I went through the same process trying to find something that felt anywhere near comfortable. Didn't work out I realize I was going slow, but they were medium compounds so I probably should have had softs on...

Looking back and what I have learned:

1. Get some tyre warmers and do it right! Check the pressure hot on the warmers and then once you get in.
2. Check the pressure all day to ensure they are working in the same range.


Rojer setup my suspension at TWS (Texas World Speedway), I was going so slow that day (was no way in I was going to risk another crash on license day), but the bike feels soooooo different! This last weekend at H2R I finally got to run the Pirelli's and they were sweet! Combined with suspension work I felt so confident, still slow but getting much faster! The fast group guys were still passing me but I could stay close to them for at least 1 to 2 corners! They late break the out of me though

Thanks for all the input guys! I look to all of you folks for help and guidance! Lord knows I need all the help I can get!
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:46 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Tom Motorcycles Unlimited charges 25 for a suspension setup. Get it right if your going to post numbers man
, they charged me $35....

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Old 05-01-2009, 10:24 AM   #38
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:32 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Actually no, they were only 1 1/2 track days old. To get those tyres to where I felt right on them I dropped the rear pressure to like 24ish cold and the front to like 25ish cold. They finally felt so so then. I didn't / don't (until last night thanks John!) have tyre warmers. So hot, I was trying to get somewhere around 30 front and 28 - 29 rear. The problem was that I just couldn't get the tyres to heat up (using laser surface temp gauge) or get the pressure up. I simply was not getting the front tyre to heat up beyond 160F surface temperature, so I dropped a little more out of the front..... I think that is what killed it. It felt wishy washy until I did that, I probably should have done some suspension stuff too. I bought these tyres early morning at Cresent like 2/3 months prior to OHR (aka whatever the last TTD at Cresent was last year). I bet I "cooked" the tyres that day, cause once they were set I left them alone so who knows what they did as the day heated up! Rookie mistake for sure

When I got to OHR I went through the same process trying to find something that felt anywhere near comfortable. Didn't work out I realize I was going slow, but they were medium compounds so I probably should have had softs on...

Looking back and what I have learned:

1. Get some tyre warmers and do it right! Check the pressure hot on the warmers and then once you get in.
2. Check the pressure all day to ensure they are working in the same range.


Rojer setup my suspension at TWS (Texas World Speedway), I was going so slow that day (was no way in I was going to risk another crash on license day), but the bike feels soooooo different! This last weekend at H2R I finally got to run the Pirelli's and they were sweet! Combined with suspension work I felt so confident, still slow but getting much faster! The fast group guys were still passing me but I could stay close to them for at least 1 to 2 corners! They late break the out of me though

Thanks for all the input guys! I look to all of you folks for help and guidance! Lord knows I need all the help I can get!

Great feedback and right-up about your experience. I enjoy reading posts like this, especially regaurding tires.

<-----------Also just got a temp gun to run some "experiments" at TWS (Texas World Speedway) and get some insight on temps.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:35 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post
one trackday on a set of tires? Are you guys swapping them out after the yellow lines in the rubber dissappear? Good gawd that must be expensive if you run through a set of tires in one trackday.
Just the rear. Naw, John give them to every one for free.
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