MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 04-25-2009, 10:58 AM   #1
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






Question Fast Racers' Advice

Hello fellow racers! My name is Glen. I was wondering if I could get a few tips on becoming faster. I know it only says "2 trackdays" but Ive had history with racing for a few years now. I also understand that the BEST tool to becoming faster is seattime. I started at novice with LSTD in TWS (Texas World Speedway). It was a good way to experience full lean with the bike, but the pace became slow. 2 weeks later I entered intermediate with TTD at MSRH. Pace was much more suitable, but watching the advanced group made me want to grow faster. Yall ADVANCED GUYS are sick! I hope to join yall very soon

I'd like to get some advice about:

First gear usage
I was at MSRH downshifting into 1st gear on both that first turn after the straight by pitlane (turn 16 I believe) and "diamond's edge" (2 90-degree turns after the back straight). I was told by an instructor to stay on 2nd gear on the first turn for a smoother transition and that change made a big difference. Do yall take "diamonds edge" with 1st gear or second gear? Also, in any other track, do yall often use the 1st gear on slow turns or is it a rule to just stay on 2nd gear and higher? I noticed everytime I take a turn with 1st gear, the transition from that gear to 2nd during a turn is extremely rough. Im always afraid to break traction in doing so.

Rear braking
On the streets, I always use both my front and rear brakes for faster braking. Many trackdayers say that I would never use the rear brake on the track but lately Ive always used the rear brake after each straight. Is it common for yall fast racers to use the rear brake on the track? Or do yall focus on applying more pressure to the front? I like using the rear brake and I'm sure it should be a big advantage or else MotoGP or WSBK would not even have rear brakes on their bikes.

Neccessity of a knee slide
All this time I thought the purpose of a knee slide was to act as a weight support during extreme lean angles (almost like a stabilizer to prevent up and down movement during a turn). My buddy said the knee is used as a guage. Is that true? Ive scraped knee at TWS (Texas World Speedway) and I didnt like the feeling. I would often flinche and stutter while hitting the apex. Lately Ive been switching booty cheeks on the seat but keeping my legs tucked in. I feel more comfortable and I feel like I can get more angle. Ive been scraping my pegs and boots more than my knees. I see that some of the advanced riders do the same thing too.

516625237 eo3eE M

Booty cheek placement
Ive seen some riders take their whole entire rump off the seat. Is that really neccessary? Its weird because in some pictures ill see people off the seat dragging knee but the bike's actualy lean angle isn't that great.

Traction
Lately Ive been running 2cts and after 5 laps each session I notice ill slide out of certain turns everytime. Seems as if the tires become a bit greasy when warmed up. They still look like that have sufficient amounts of tread but I guess it might be a sign that they cant be used to its full potential anymore. Ive been seting hte pressures at 30-30psi. At the end of each session they reach 33-35psi. Should I run the rear tire a bit lower? I hear a alot of people switching to the BT-002's. I might just try that. This recession is a biiiatch and my money is super tight. I hope John at SCRC can give me the best deal out there!

Any input would be greatly appreciated because I do want to learn and get faster. As money seems to appear in my hand more often, I hope to join yall at most of the trackdays whether its LSTD TTD or Ridesmart. Hope to see and meet yall next time!
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Riding on wet roads, how fast is too fast? Versatile337 Safety Corner Main 45 02-11-2011 11:32 AM
how fast is fast on 3090/forest sofa General Discussion (Moto Related) 130 12-20-2009 09:54 AM
I need a fast shop...fast! cascott01 General Discussion (Moto Related) 11 09-16-2009 01:32 PM
Any of you racers JRxGRUBZx Off Topic 11 04-13-2009 12:42 PM
Drag Racers Ain't REAL Racers ArturoC Taking it to the Track 0 05-24-2006 04:25 PM
Advertisement
Old 04-25-2009, 11:06 AM   #2
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






hahaa ALSO, I know my body posture sucks... I'll work on that!
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 11:20 AM   #3
Mongrel
Member
 
Mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ft. Worth
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 30


Bike(s):
SV650









I can answer some of the body position questions.

First off get your knee out, and get the head and shoulder down. This will reduce your lean angle and shift the weight to the inside and lower the center of gravity enabling you to carry more corner speed. As for dragging your knee it is just a gauge and should not be jammed into the ground (this will upset the bike). Mine will simply skim the ground and let me know where I am at. On the very rare occasions you may be able to save a front end slide with the knee, but that is not how it should be used
__________________
CMRA #161 RRSW (CCS) #61
Mongrel Racing
Faith69
Roof Helmets
Dunlop Tires
Mongrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 11:37 AM   #4
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,798

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by awokenracer View Post

First gear usage
Don't worry about which gear you're in. As your pace changes your shifting points will change too. Sounds like you may have been down-shifting too much, but I didn't see it so I couldn't say for sure. If I review a lap I could figure out which gear I'm probably in for a given point in a turn, but I have no idea what gear I'm in while riding.

In my opinion, at this point in your addiction, this is something I wouldn't pay too much (or any) attention to. There are many other things to focus on than this that are much more important.

Rear braking

I don't use the rear brake... ever. Well, if I run off the track I do, but never on the track. To me it's a useless piece of the bike's anatomy. There are those that use it- it's a matter of preference I guess. Personally I can't see any good reason to use it.

Neccessity of a knee slide

I use it for a gauge. Sometimes I'll drag it all the way around a corner but I'm also bringing the lean angle over more as I do it. Most corners I'll touch and bring it back in.


Booty cheek placement

You're right-on with the comments about those with exaggerated knee/ body positions. It's funny to me. I do use it as a drill with my students to have an exaggerated position, but that has a purpose for instruction only. It's funny to me to see people with exaggerated body positions when they're so slow. I can think of 2 great examples of this off the top of my head.

As far as dragging your toes/ pegs goes, on the k6+ GSXR the bike seems to be much lower than previous GSXRs and I have a problem with the stock rearsets too. I know I'd have more issue with them if my suspension wasn't set up properly. All that said, I'd suggest looking at where your forks/ shock is set as far as height goes. I've raised my front end 8mm and raised the shock 10mm. A helluva difference from stock. Also, it appears in your pic that you're "crossed up" and leaning the bike against your body. Comes with seat time and good instruction (from an experienced instructor).

An in-experienced "instructor" will focus a lot of time on body position. To me, body position (within reason) is a waste of time teaching on a track (again, within reason). Again, there are so many things to focus on with riding at your level.

Traction

At your level, a good trackday tire is a nice thing to have. Street tires will usually be just fine however and you have to weigh which is more important.


Sign up for LSTD's advanced rider instruction and we'll get you sorted by the end of the day
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #5
ileono918
On hiatus
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 6,047

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1











..
ileono918 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 11:57 AM   #6
Jetkillr
Trackdays:7 Crashes:3
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Houston
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,385

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 7

Bike(s):
2001 SV650S
2001 R6 SOLD



Member Garage





you gotta get off the bike cuz soon enough you will run out of tire like i almost did once at TWS (Texas World Speedway), i could feel the front breaking loose. you get off the bike so the bike doesnt have to lean as much to make a turn. all i worry about right now is being smooth and running my racing line and stay consistant. im not fast but im down to a 2:02 on street tires (if that matters) at TWS (Texas World Speedway) and ive only been riding 7-8 months ever. i just listen and learn, thats the best thing you can do. Im gonna also take the larry meyers racing school on july 4th at TWS (Texas World Speedway).
__________________
i think this makes him look human. you always get people thinking they soooooo perfect, well your not. at least Obama was cool enough to be himself. thats why i look up to him, he's like an average black male but with intelligence. -Actual Quote from a Barack Obama supporter
Jetkillr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:02 PM   #7
bumblebee
Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off
 
bumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,261


Bike(s):
'74 Suzuki GT380
'82 XS650 StreetTracker
'10 Ducati Streetfighter
'83 Yamaha Seca 900






Just an opinion, but it sounds to me, based on your questions/comments, that you should be less concerned with getting faster and more concerned with learning to be smooth and consistant.
IMHO being faster is not a goal, it is a result of being a better rider. Be a better rider and you will be faster. Try to go faster and you will just learn bad habits and might hurt yourself.
__________________
Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester
When seconds count... the police are only minutes away.
Grow up and be a productive member of society already.
Bevo- "I lack skillz"
bumblebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:02 PM   #8
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






Thank you all for your inputs. Tom, thanks for taking the time to type all that. I will sign up for that instruction!

Hahaha and yes Irak, I always bring my .
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:10 PM   #9
07SLVRCBR
October '08 BOTM
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Friendswood
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 4,064

Experience: 1-3 months

Bike(s):
2007 CBR1000RR









Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Just an opinion, but it sounds to me, based on your questions/comments, that you should be less concerned with getting faster and more concerned with learning to be smooth and consistant.
IMHO being faster is not a goal, it is a result of being a better rider. Be a better rider and you will be faster. Try to go faster and you will just learn bad habits and might hurt yourself.
Great advice. I constantly tell myself to slow it down.

Smooth = fast. and less crashes 2.
__________________
Support your site sponsors!!

See ya @ the track!
07SLVRCBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:18 PM   #10
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Just an opinion, but it sounds to me, based on your questions/comments, that you should be less concerned with getting faster and more concerned with learning to be smooth and consistant.
IMHO being faster is not a goal, it is a result of being a better rider. Be a better rider and you will be faster. Try to go faster and you will just learn bad habits and might hurt yourself.
I feel that I am consistant with my racing line. I also know that the "line" changes when trying to pass someone and I know how to adapt and somehow predict a racer's movement in front of me. I'm more along the lines of trying to go " to the wall." I understand smoothness is important, but Im not going to pay 150 bucks for a trackday so that I can take it easy and go smooth and "kinda" fast. With nearly 19,000 aggressive miles stack on my `07 gsxr, Im paying for trackday to push it to the limits where it cannot be done on streets. BUT I do see what youre saying though. Im passed the consistency phase. I think it limits your time to experience how to execute certain turns in different ways.
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #11
Mongrel
Member
 
Mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ft. Worth
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 30


Bike(s):
SV650









Ok a couple of other things you may want to work on.

1. Get set up for the corner before you start the turn– to the inside knee out.

2. As a novice get your shifting done and in the gear you want to be in prior to the turn. There are two ways to try this. Downshift blip throttle and smoothly release clutch in-between each shift. Or grab all the gears you want and slowly release clutch without releasing the clutch in-between each shift (my preferred method).

3. Pick your apex and aim for it. Get your head turned and look for you exit point. Keep looking up the track as far as you can.

4. Open the throttle as soon as you can and as smoothly as possible. Not necessarily a big throttle opening but a positive throttle will help settle the bike.

5. Smoothly roll the throttle open as you start exiting the turn.

The real key to all of this is slow hands and smooth application of the brake and clutch. When you are out there take advantage of the instructors, ask lots of questions and listen to a bunch of them. There are way too many riding styles to say one is better than the other
__________________
CMRA #161 RRSW (CCS) #61
Mongrel Racing
Faith69
Roof Helmets
Dunlop Tires
Mongrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






Sweet! Yeah I'll keep that in mind. Even on my first day I've been trailbraking and rev-match-downshifting at the same time. Shifting and being at the lowest gear is no problem. I'd like to learn how to slip the clutch a bit before fully engaging it out of a turn. Sometimes even when I apply just a tad bit a wrist angle to the throttle, it tends to have a burst of power which causes me to power-slide out of a turn.
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #13
Mongrel
Member
 
Mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ft. Worth
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 30


Bike(s):
SV650









Should have read "smooth application of the brake, clutch, and throttle"
__________________
CMRA #161 RRSW (CCS) #61
Mongrel Racing
Faith69
Roof Helmets
Dunlop Tires
Mongrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 01:06 PM   #14
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






gotcha
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 02:23 PM   #15
TrevorC
Senior Member
 
TrevorC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,406

Experience: 9 years
Trackdays: 8

Bike(s):
08 Kawasaki ZX10




Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by awokenracer View Post
it tends to have a burst of power which causes me to power-slide out of a turn.
better be careful with that , can cause a highside really easily.
TrevorC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 03:06 PM   #16
The Habernatho
Senior Member
 
The Habernatho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 513

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
2012 Street Triple R









Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Just an opinion, but it sounds to me, based on your questions/comments, that you should be less concerned with getting faster and more concerned with learning to be smooth and consistant.
IMHO being faster is not a goal, it is a result of being a better rider. Be a better rider and you will be faster. Try to go faster and you will just learn bad habits and might hurt yourself.
+1 gotta be smooth to go fast
http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=86026
The Habernatho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 03:22 PM   #17
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






very helpful thread. thanks!
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 03:25 PM   #18
BigComfy
Senior Member
 
BigComfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: under a rock
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 24,322

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
SV1k (sold)
CRB6 Track Bike (sold)
Daytona 1200 (parted)
1st Gen FZ1 (sold)
1st Gen SV650 (sold)

Member Garage


TMGP
BigComfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 03:55 PM   #19
bumblebee
Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off
 
bumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,261


Bike(s):
'74 Suzuki GT380
'82 XS650 StreetTracker
'10 Ducati Streetfighter
'83 Yamaha Seca 900






Quote:
Originally Posted by awokenracer View Post
Sometimes even when I apply just a tad bit a wrist angle to the throttle, it tends to have a burst of power which causes me to power-slide out of a turn.
This can be a tuning issue. Sometimes the money spent on a good dyno-tune is well worth it.
Early fuel injection systems had this problem and was one reason why bike mfrs were slow to implement it on bikes. They had a hard time getting smooth off to on throttle transitions, with the relatively small displacement engines and light flywheel effect. (as compared to cars)
Now the FI's are as good or better than a well sorted carb setup.

Anyway, you should look into getting your bike to a state of smooth transitional power. Cable adjustment is a place to start, tuning, syncing, etc. until it is like a handful of butter.
__________________
Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester
When seconds count... the police are only minutes away.
Grow up and be a productive member of society already.
Bevo- "I lack skillz"
bumblebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 04:06 PM   #20
awokenracer
california destined
 
awokenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: KATY TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 140

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
None :(






Quote:
Originally Posted by BigComfy View Post
TMGP
que?
__________________
- Glen
awokenracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy