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Old 04-22-2009, 12:57 PM   #21
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they aren't legally required to show you the radar, it risks their safety and your own as you get out of the vehicle. Pay the attorney and fight. The little guy never wins, unless he has a lawyer. :-)
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:57 PM   #22
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Are they really using laser? I thought most of the HPD guys were still using radar (Ka K or X).
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:19 PM   #23
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:29 PM   #24
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get a lawyer. you will not beat it on your own. lawyers know how to manipulate the officer's testimony to work for you, you do not.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:34 PM   #25
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As burnboy and others said, 99% chance U will lose if U dont hire a lawyer, cops are officers of the court, U are just the guy trying to beat a ticket = U loose, Unless U hire a lawyer, David Sprecher is great, the best $$$ spent, I got 17 tickets (yes 17) in 1 year and beat everyone of them. I did take dd 1 time, can U imagine how hard they would laugh with me trying to get insurance with 17 tickets
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:41 PM   #26
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As burnboy and others said, 99% chance U will lose if U dont hire a lawyer, cops are officers of the court, U are just the guy trying to beat a ticket = U loose, Unless U hire a lawyer, David Sprecher is great, the best $$$ spent, I got 17 tickets (yes 17) in 1 year and beat everyone of them. I did take dd 1 time, can U imagine how hard they would laugh with me trying to get insurance with 17 tickets
Wow, talk about a Speed Tax?!


But with your line of work, maybe it's tax deductable?
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:42 PM   #27
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Are they really using laser? I thought most of the HPD guys were still using radar (Ka K or X).
In the past 5 months riding around town with my radar dectector I've noticed a lot more K band popping up. X band isn't used in Texas (as far as I know) and Ka is still the top.

The lazer (actually Lidar)has limitations but I dont see how the traffic arguement applies to this tech more then radar.

"Traffic really only comes into play when the officer is using laser. I doubt he was."

The spread on a lazer beam is very minimal witch is why it is so hard to detect and if he has the sight on you it is 100% you that he is getting the recording on. Radar on the other hand spreads and bounces much more and has more room for error.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:50 PM   #28
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Your original question was whether your word vs his word could work. It can't.

If he radared the car next to you and you appeared to be going the same speed then he might as well have radared you. It makes no difference how many cars are on the road. Traffic really only comes into play when the officer is using laser. I doubt he was.

Now, if you think you have some "evidence" that might cast doubt on the officer's story, yeah you might win. I seriously doubt it though. From everything you've said it's a lost cause. You aren't a lawyer and don't have the expertise to defend yourself in a case like this. Just pay the $100 and let the lawyer do the work for you. That's your best chance.

I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing or being rude, I would hate for you to go into court trying to minimize the cost of the ticket and leave with a fine and points on your record, higher insurance, etc etc.
I hear what your saying and your points are well taken. All I am trying to determine, is that if there are any folks that have gone through the whole system without an attorney and have been successfull. If our system really works, then we should be able to go through the whole process and present your case without having to pay for it.

I may add that the cop even gave me a list of number of attorneys who get rid of these tickets. It just gives me the impression that if a cop is referring lawyers to you, for a case he will be involved in, what the is our judicial system coming to with respect to defending yourself as an individual. I will most likely have to go hire an attorney who thrives off of these revolving-door cases where he wins simply because he is an attorney with an argument that can be presented just as easily from the defendant.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #29
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What time of the day were you clocked? I ask because the only time you can do less than 70 is in rush hour trafic.....I know, I live there (22 years) and drive to west park and 610 every day. And most of the cops are using lazer now, but if he says it is recorded, have hime bring that to court!
$100...cheap!
330pm. Lots of cars around me. We went about a good 1/3- half a mile before I pulled over. I felt like getting out and taking a picture of where we were compared to where he initially started to get off the shoulder.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:54 PM   #30
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As burnboy and others said, 99% chance U will lose if U dont hire a lawyer, cops are officers of the court, U are just the guy trying to beat a ticket = U loose, Unless U hire a lawyer, David Sprecher is great, the best $$$ spent, I got 17 tickets (yes 17) in 1 year and beat everyone of them. I did take dd 1 time, can U imagine how hard they would laugh with me trying to get insurance with 17 tickets
17 in a year? Slow down man

If he has the same argument each time, why wouldn't a judge/jury hear the same thing from a defendant? I will most likely go with an attorney, but again..has anyone fought through the system alone and won without and attorney??
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #31
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YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Keep that in mind when you are in court. Ask for evidence that it was you that he clocked, or is there evidence?????? No evidence to prove that you are guilty. Cops are not superhuman being and they make mistakes and machine calibration. You have to prove to the JURY that mistakes can be made, that's your defends. As for your words and his, you'll lose because he is more credible unless you are a well known to the public as a saint. That's my suggestion but what do I know? Nothing. I always talk to the DA and get him/her to reduce the fine and probation period and pay/get it over with then to go back to court and make an out of myself. Sucks to wait in court for 3-4 hours to be arraigned and spend more time at court fighting/arguing and might lose and pay all the fine that could be avoided in the beginning.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:14 PM   #32
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you seem to have made your mind up already to attempt to defend yourself. good luck. you will lose. best bet is you'll get a reduced offense, instead of 80 in a 65 you'll get a 70 in a 65, but still a guilty, and still a mark on your record.

look at it this way, if you fight and win, yay, but if you lose, you are guilty, and there are no appeals. you have one chance to defend yourself. there are no do overs.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:17 PM   #33
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you seem to have made your mind up already to attempt to defend yourself. good luck. you will lose. best bet is you'll get a reduced offense, instead of 80 in a 65 you'll get a 70 in a 65, but still a guilty, and still a mark on your record.

look at it this way, if you fight and win, yay, but if you lose, you are guilty, and there are no appeals. you have one chance to defend yourself. there are no do overs.
that's not what i'm saying at all - I will most likely hire an attorney as I have stated a few times. It's more of a question of our judicial system, and if ANYONE has done it...ever????

Good point on the losing. There is no asking for anything reduced if I lose.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #34
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YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Keep that in mind when you are in court. Ask for evidence that it was you that he clocked, or is there evidence?????? No evidence to prove that you are guilty. Cops are not superhuman being and they make mistakes and machine calibration. You have to prove to the JURY that mistakes can be made, that's your defends. As for your words and his, you'll lose because he is more credible unless you are a well known to the public as a saint. That's my suggestion but what do I know? Nothing. I always talk to the DA and get him/her to reduce the fine and probation period and pay/get it over with then to go back to court and make an out of myself. Sucks to wait in court for 3-4 hours to be arraigned and spend more time at court fighting/arguing and might lose and pay all the fine that could be avoided in the beginning.
So on an arraignment date, can you present some pics/arguments to the DA by yourself? If it doesn'y fly or they aren't budging, can you reset the date and come back with an attorney? (all before going in front of the judge to plea/ask for trial by judge/jury)
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:23 PM   #35
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The lazer (actually Lidar)has limitations but I dont see how the traffic arguement applies to this tech more then radar.

"Traffic really only comes into play when the officer is using laser. I doubt he was."

The spread on a lazer beam is very minimal witch is why it is so hard to detect and if he has the sight on you it is 100% you that he is getting the recording on. Radar on the other hand spreads and bounces much more and has more room for error.
I agree with everything you said here. To clarify my point, I meant that in heavy traffic it can be more challenging for the officer to get you exactly because of the other traffic around you - blocking his line of sight. Definitely, if he has good line of sight, you are nailed - but in heavy traffic you have to be closer for him to get you - assuming you aren't out in front of traffic. I'm thinking mostly in a situation where he is shooting back towards traffic and other vehicles are blocking his line of site. This wouldn't be a problem from the side. I could be way off, but I would think both laser and radar have their strong and weak points.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:26 PM   #36
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So on an arraignment date, can you present some pics/arguments to the DA by yourself? If it doesn'y fly or they aren't budging, can you reset the date and come back with an attorney? (all before going in front of the judge to plea/ask for trial by judge/jury)
No, you would present that before the trial on the date your trial is set for. Arraignment is just a formal way of informing you of the charges against you. There will be no presentation of evidence, just a plea.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I agree with everything you said here. To clarify my point, I meant that in heavy traffic it can be more challenging for the officer to get you exactly because of the other traffic around you - blocking his line of sight. Definitely, if he has good line of sight, you are nailed - but in heavy traffic you have to be closer for him to get you - assuming you aren't out in front of traffic. I'm thinking mostly in a situation where he is shooting back towards traffic and other vehicles are blocking his line of site. This wouldn't be a problem from the side. I could be way off, but I would think both laser and radar have their strong and weak points.
that's great and all, but you aren't taking into account that the officer is trained how to use this equipment properly, and is therefore considered an expert in it's use. if he says he tagged you with no doubt, then the court accepts that as fact. the officer's testimony in the case is all regarded as fact, he is not treated as a witness nor a normal person. he is an expert in all aspects of the traffic stop, and is treated accordingly. it is always your word against the officer's unless you have evidence to disprove his testimony.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:34 PM   #38
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No, you would present that before the trial on the date your trial is set for. Arraignment is just a formal way of informing you of the charges against you. There will be no presentation of evidence, just a plea.
OK. I have been to Mykawa and other places (on arraignment) where if you are there to take DD/ask for deferred, you do it all the same day which is standard process it seems.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:34 PM   #39
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So on an arraignment date, can you present some pics/arguments to the DA by yourself? If it doesn'y fly or they aren't budging, can you reset the date and come back with an attorney? (all before going in front of the judge to plea/ask for trial by judge/jury)
On the day of the court or arraignment, you could bargain with the DA and can bring all the facts that you have to prove that you have a winning case. He/she will bargain with you or might even dismissed the charges with a court fee. If the two of you don't agree then court date shall be set to present your case. It is all for the money...I am sure they will reduce to lesser fine and get your money then to spend more money on juries and everyone elses time. On the court date you can do it by yourself no attorney is needed and don't hire one unless you are taking this case to jury trial. There's formal procedure to address the court and juries and lawyers know what to do. If you go alone and make an out of yourself like me at one time, then just pay the fine and get it over with.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:38 PM   #40
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On the day of the court or arraignment, you could bargain with the DA and can bring all the facts that you have to prove that you have a winning case. He/she will bargain with you or might even dismissed the charges with a court fee. If the two of you don't agree then court date shall be set to present your case. It is all for the money...I am sure they will reduce to lesser fine and get your money then to spend more money on juries and everyone elses time. On the court date you can do it by yourself no attorney is needed and don't hire one unless you are taking this case to jury trial. There's formal procedure to address the court and juries and lawyers know what to do. If you go alone and make an out of yourself like me at one time, then just pay the fine and get it over with.
You're the guy I've been looking for. So was it lack of evidence/preparation/even having a chance? Would it have been possible to win if you did some things differently, or if you had a lawyer?
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