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Old 04-14-2009, 09:17 AM   #1
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cold tearing = less traction?

Is cold tearing a sign that you're not able to heat the tire up "properly?" Does this also result in a significant loss of traction? I'm just wondering if suggesting people get BT002s/3s for their first trackday is a wise choice. Seems to me most people wouldn't be able to heat them up enough to make good use of them, and might possibly be compromising traction in the process.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:31 AM   #2
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getting them up to temp, well, that can be manipulated with air pressure.

as far as traction goes when you have cold tear.....yes, you have less traction when there is significant cold tearing. sometimes the cold tear will clean up once you fix your air pressure or suspension issue....but most of the times it's already too late, just throw the tire away.

do i think bt003's for a first trackday is wise? no, not because it's too good a tire for the skill level, but money wise.....it's better to start on a bt002 or similar track oriented tire until your skill reaches the need for a better edge.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
getting them up to temp, well, that can be manipulated with air pressure.

as far as traction goes when you have cold tear.....yes, you have less traction when there is significant cold tearing. sometimes the cold tear will clean up once you fix your air pressure or suspension issue....but most of the times it's already too late, just throw the tire away.

do i think bt003's for a first trackday is wise? no, not because it's too good a tire for the skill level, but money wise.....it's better to start on a bt002 or similar track oriented tire until your skill reaches the need for a better edge.

so tire pressure and tire temp always scale? So someone thats slow as could run a slick at some absurdly low pressure, and get enough heat in the tire to make it not cold tear?

The reason I ask all this is that I ran BT002s on my '07 1k last season. I was slower than , but DESTROYED the rear tire. Everyone told me that there was nothing I could do....I just didn't have the pace to heat that tire. Now maybe I'm learning I DID have the pace, I just needed less pressure?
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
so tire pressure and tire temp always scale? So someone thats slow as could run a slick at some absurdly low pressure, and get enough heat in the tire to make it not cold tear?

The reason I ask all this is that I ran BT002s on my '07 1k last season. I was slower than , but DESTROYED the rear tire. Everyone told me that there was nothing I could do....I just didn't have the pace to heat that tire. Now maybe I'm learning I DID have the pace, I just needed less pressure?
Was it the BT002RS or the older BT002 Pro's?
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
Was it the BT002RS or the older BT002 Pro's?
its been 8 months, but I'm pretty sure its was the Ride Smart I remember the tire saying "street" on it if that helps.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:49 AM   #6
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cold tear can often be disguised as point and shoot type of rider, too (very slow in, heavy handed out).
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07SLVRCBR View Post
cold tear can often be disguised as point and shoot type of rider, too (very slow in, heavy handed out).

I did a bit of that
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I did a bit of that
Just sayin.

It's often easy to overlook ones shortcomings and point towards machine/equipment "failure"
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:56 AM   #9
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Good thread Blake. Will be interested in seeing this one unfold.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07SLVRCBR View Post
Just sayin.

It's often easy to overlook ones shortcomings and point towards machine/equipment "failure"
Shortcomings isn't whats being discussed in this thread. Cold tearing, pace, and tire temp is
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Shortcomings isn't whats being discussed in this thread. Cold tearing, pace, and tire temp is
Well it sounds like you had the BT002RS. In that case it is almost impossible to cold tear the tire from a lack of pace. Your pressures could be off or as stated your just ham fisted it too soon. If the tire is hot you can get away with more and not hurt the tire. Even if your running warmers you can get cold tear. Esspecially at MSRH, the track has low mechanical grip, also with everyone plugged into the electricity there, you have a issue of your warmers not getting enough juice. This causes them to not get hot enough. So instead of them being 170 deg F, they are 140 deg F. That is a problem, that will result in cold tear if you jump out there and start ripping it up too soon.

Some ways of staying away from cold tear:

1) Use a infared temp gun to check tire temps, I prefer a temp prob, but they do cost more.

2) CHECK YOUR PRESSURES.....a lot. Cold pressures, pressures on the warmers & hot off the track pressures. It takes a minute to do it, the tires are your only connection to the pavement. If they are not working right, then your yourself right there.

3) Make sure your air gauge is accurate. I can check your gauge, it takes no time and you know were you stand.

4) If your not running warmers, take it EASY for a lap, and slowly work up to pace. I know it sounds like a waste of track time, but it is either that or buy warmers. The amount of tires you will destroy due to cold tear will easily pay for warmers.

John
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
Well it sounds like you had the BT002RS. In that case it is almost impossible to cold tear the tire from a lack of pace. Your pressures could be off or as stated your just ham fisted it too soon. If the tire is hot you can get away with more and not hurt the tire. Even if your running warmers you can get cold tear. Esspecially at MSRH, the track has low mechanical grip, also with everyone plugged into the electricity there, you have a issue of your warmers not getting enough juice. This causes them to not get hot enough. So instead of them being 170 deg F, they are 140 deg F. That is a problem, that will result in cold tear if you jump out there and start ripping it up too soon.

Some ways of staying away from cold tear:

1) Use a infared temp gun to check tire temps, I prefer a temp prob, but they do cost more.

2) CHECK YOUR PRESSURES.....a lot. Cold pressures, pressures on the warmers & hot off the track pressures. It takes a minute to do it, the tires are your only connection to the pavement. If they are not working right, then your yourself right there.

3) Make sure your air gauge is accurate. I can check your gauge, it takes no time and you know were you stand.

4) If your not running warmers, take it EASY for a lap, and slowly work up to pace. I know it sounds like a waste of track time, but it is either that or buy warmers. The amount of tires you will destroy due to cold tear will easily pay for warmers.

John
1. I never ran them with warmers.

2. I was at a mid C group pace.......definetly not tearing it up even on my fastest lap

3. I THINK I was running 29/30 F/R, but it was 8 months ago so I'm not sure.





The bike and tire combo in question is gone. I'm just trying to figure out what happened (probably a long shot) for future reference. Basically so that we can give first time track riders more informed opinions when they ask for tire advice.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
Well it sounds like you had the BT002RS. In that case it is almost impossible to cold tear the tire from a lack of pace. Your pressures could be off or as stated your just ham fisted it too soon. If the tire is hot you can get away with more and not hurt the tire. Even if your running warmers you can get cold tear. Esspecially at MSRH, the track has low mechanical grip, also with everyone plugged into the electricity there, you have a issue of your warmers not getting enough juice. This causes them to not get hot enough. So instead of them being 170 deg F, they are 140 deg F. That is a problem, that will result in cold tear if you jump out there and start ripping it up too soon.

Some ways of staying away from cold tear:

1) Use a infared temp gun to check tire temps, I prefer a temp prob, but they do cost more.

2) CHECK YOUR PRESSURES.....a lot. Cold pressures, pressures on the warmers & hot off the track pressures. It takes a minute to do it, the tires are your only connection to the pavement. If they are not working right, then your yourself right there.

3) Make sure your air gauge is accurate. I can check your gauge, it takes no time and you know were you stand.

4) If your not running warmers, take it EASY for a lap, and slowly work up to pace. I know it sounds like a waste of track time, but it is either that or buy warmers. The amount of tires you will destroy due to cold tear will easily pay for warmers.

John

What temp range or window would one be looking for with the 003's hot off the track John?? Ive got an infrared gun from drag racing, may drag it out and try it, so im curious.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Shortcomings isn't whats being discussed in this thread. Cold tearing, pace, and tire temp is
Pix of the tire would help considerably.

John summed a lot up.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07SLVRCBR View Post
Pix of the tire would help considerably.

John summed a lot up.
I seriously doubt I still have one.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
1. I never ran them with warmers.

2. I was at a mid C group pace.......definetly not tearing it up even on my fastest lap

3. I THINK I was running 29/30 F/R, but it was 8 months ago so I'm not sure.





The bike and tire combo in question is gone. I'm just trying to figure out what happened (probably a long shot) for future reference. Basically so that we can give first time track riders more informed opinions when they ask for tire advice.
1) not an issue with the BT002RS

2) Thats what I'm trying to explain, it is not your "pace" that deastroyed your tire, but the 1000 cc bike you had. A 1000 makes so much power that it will tear a tire up if it is not suffeciently warmed up. I see much more tire issues with new riders on 1000's than any other combo. Typically new riders are not smooth and they tend to gun it out of the corners. Rather than carry the corner speed. The overall lap time will be slow, but they are still very hard on tires. Espeically since most riders don't check their pressures nearly enough.

3) recommended pressures are 29 front & 27 rear
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
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What temp range or window would one be looking for with the 003's hot off the track John?? Ive got an infrared gun from drag racing, may drag it out and try it, so im curious.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:31 PM   #18
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nice thread, very informative.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
1) not an issue with the BT002RS

2) Thats what I'm trying to explain, it is not your "pace" that deastroyed your tire, but the 1000 cc bike you had. A 1000 makes so much power that it will tear a tire up if it is not suffeciently warmed up. I see much more tire issues with new riders on 1000's than any other combo. Typically new riders are not smooth and they tend to gun it out of the corners. Rather than carry the corner speed. The overall lap time will be slow, but they are still very hard on tires. Espeically since most riders don't check their pressures nearly enough.

3) recommended pressures are 29 front & 27 rear
So in your conclusion, even though my pace was slow, I could have solved the cold tearing issue by dropping pressure in the tire?
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
So in your conclusion, even though my pace was slow, I could have solved the cold tearing issue by dropping pressure in the tire?
You could have solved your problem by not ham- the throttle. see bolded section

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
1) not an issue with the BT002RS

2) Thats what I'm trying to explain, it is not your "pace" that deastroyed your tire, but the 1000 cc bike you had. A 1000 makes so much power that it will tear a tire up if it is not suffeciently warmed up. I see much more tire issues with new riders on 1000's than any other combo. Typically new riders are not smooth and they tend to gun it out of the corners. Rather than carry the corner speed. The overall lap time will be slow, but they are still very hard on tires. Espeically since most riders don't check their pressures nearly enough.

3) recommended pressures are 29 front & 27 rear
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