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Old 03-31-2009, 03:56 PM   #21
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:03 PM   #22
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:08 PM   #23
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Don't mean to bust your bubble Ryan, but Scotts oil filters allow too much dirt to pass through.

35 microns, which is what the Scotts is rated for, is flipping HIGH.

FWIW, the human eye can see down to 42.

Hi Flow, WIX and Amsoil EA filters are rated at 15 Microns.

K&N is rated at 17.

, even FRAM is rated at 20!


But hey, don't mind me, I only see a couple of hundred engines torn down a year.

Greg,
Give me a shout and I'll put something together for you.
Funny you mention the micron rating, even some of the manufactures you listed above do not suggest comparing filters by comparing their micron rating. Hey who knows, I could be wrong, but I doubt many of the racing organizations or industries that use them are. Were you saying you have seen destroyed engines that resulted from the use of a scotts (or any other brand) ss oil filter?
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:08 PM   #25
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If you don't use micron ratings to evaluate filtration what would you suggest to use?

To answer your other question:
While I can't conclusively point to a SS filter being the cause of advanced engine wear, both the Mechanical Engineer in me as well as the engine builder has seen out of the norm bearing wear on race engines we've seen at the end of the season that coincidentally have used SS filters.

I'm sure you can find some "internet guru" to say otherwise, but I'll stick with what I've seen / experienced over the last 30 plus years of building engines.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
If you don't use micron ratings to evaluate filtration what would you suggest to use?

To answer your other question:
While I can't conclusively point to a SS filter being the cause of advanced engine wear, both the Mechanical Engineer in me as well as the engine builder has seen out of the norm bearing wear on race engines we've seen at the end of the season that coincidentally have used SS filters.

I'm sure you can find some "internet guru" to say otherwise, but I'll stick with what I've seen / experienced over the last 30 plus years of building engines.
Fair enough.

But there is established tests for oil filters that are standard across the industry that are used for comparing filters, and they are not comparing micron rating.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:15 PM   #27
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Really?
Any filter test I'm familiar with has micron ratings in it among other variables.

Can you provide a link to the tests you're referencing that do not?
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #28
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While some tests may bring in measurement of filtration read in Microns, my statement was that comparing filters by simply comparing their listed micron rating is not comparing apples to apples.

SAE J726
SAE J806
SAE J905
SAE J1858

All these are suggested as better ways to compare filters as opposed to just comparing their listed micron ratings.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:19 PM   #29
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what are they comparing? flow? filtration?
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
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what are they comparing? flow? filtration?
flow efficiency, filtration efficiency, life expectancy
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:24 PM   #31
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:27 PM   #32
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To me the 2 most important aspects of a filters performance are:
How much it filters (Microns), and flow performance (That it doesn't restrict flow.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:28 PM   #33
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FWIW I am not trying to say that my way is right, no matter what, nor do I claim to know anywhere near what Patrick knows, my point was simply that micron ratings are not the end all comparison for oil filters and that there are alot of high performance engines, beyond the performance of a motorcycle engine, that use scotts, i doubt they are doing so blindly.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:33 PM   #34
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I understand.
However in Scotts own advertising they state their filter is good to 35 microns.
Based on that info alone, I'll pass.

Another way to look at it:

You paid $120.00 for your filter.
A disposable filter with a higher micron rating is say $10.00 each.

If you change your oil every 3000 miles you'd have to change it 12 times to break even on the purchase price of the Scotts.

Basically 36,000 miles.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:35 PM   #35
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bob is the oil guy dot com

independent analysis of filters and oils

I don't know if he does moto stuff, but his research is good.

I'd agree with Patrick on this... if the filter "filters" and doesn't restrict flow, then you're good.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I understand.
However in Scotts own advertising they state their filter is good to 35 microns.
Based on that info alone, I'll pass.

Another way to look at it:

You paid $120.00 for your filter.
A disposable filter with a higher micron rating is say $10.00 each.

If you change your oil every 3000 miles you'd have to change it 12 times to break even on the purchase price of the Scotts.

Basically 36,000 miles.
I agree that the normal person could not compare the cost aspect of it because you can't really justify it by the cost savings alone, because it is not much.

But if you are doing lots of track days and are insisting on changing both filters every track day. That can and will quickly add up to well over the cost of a scotts.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:44 PM   #37
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I see alot of factory filters or some wix filters on ebay in packs of like 4 or 6
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:47 PM   #38
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what kind of bike is it?

check to table to see if your bike is on here

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-KAW...t_16792wt_1197
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:30 PM   #39
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:18 PM   #40
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hmmmmm so now im hearing the more you change it cause increase wear ....
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