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Old 03-12-2009, 03:01 PM   #21
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
There are actually a few problems with what you suggest. I'll post them......others can agree or disagree.


1. Policing who has and hasn't ridden the track to determine who needs to be in the novice group.

2. Pace. I've never ridden with Ride Smart. If they were to activate a rule like you're suggesting I'd be stuck in the novice group. My pace (and others WAY faster than me) would scare the bejesus out of much slower riders possibly causing more wrecks than it prevents.

3. The round robin groups are fairly paced anyway. Its entirely likely that if he hadn't tagged you in intermediate he might have done the same to someone else in Novice.
oh, so you don't know how to slow down? or ask an instructor to follow you to recommend you be moved up?
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
oh, so you don't know how to slow down? or ask an instructor to follow you to recommend you be moved up?
This happened in the first "open" session. Is there any way to know this before then?

Secondly, I paid my money just like everyone else. Why should I have to waste sessions riding with my elbow on the tank just so I don't scare other riders? This is why they have multiple levels, and a good reason to NOT start everyone in novice.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #24
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Lol.. I don’t think the op is a coward for not telling his mom his business. Unlike you, he sounds like an adult who doesn’t need to phone his mommy every time he his pants.
sounds like the opposite to me. an guy who's afraid to tell his mom.

maybe you're like him.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #25
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:07 PM   #26
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In OK there's exactly 1 track, and only one trackday org: the racetrack itself. So they can (and do) pull this off. However, being that there's 4 trackday orgs that operate in Houston, and multiple tracks, there's no way to prove or disprove where someone belongs until you see them ride.

Having A level riders riding with C level riders is either dangerous to C level riders, or a complete waste of a session to A level riders.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
This happened in the first "open" session. Is there any way to know this before then?

Secondly, I paid my money just like everyone else. Why should I have to waste sessions riding with my knee on the tank just so I don't scare other riders? This is why they have multiple levels, and a good reason to NOT start everyone in novice.
If you have never been on the track the novice is the ONLY place you should start. How else will you learn lines and other key elements to track riding. Everyone else paid their money too. Why should they be put at risk because someone has an ego problem who just wants to go fast with no real desire to learn. After all trackdays are in essense riding schools with the exception of advanced.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:12 PM   #28
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I am in awe that the idiot did not fess up and apologize. I would feel TERRIBLE if I had hurt someone, through noone's fault by my own. I would feel morally obligated to try to make it right as best I could.

What a POS.

And I agree, all first time riders should start in novice, even if is only for a few sessions. Then be evaluated and bumped. But, if I am a real tool, I can lie and sign up for whatever session I want. With all the orgs and tracks, noone would know until they saw me ride. Perhaps by that time, it would be too late.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candie View Post
If you have never been on the track the novice is the ONLY place you should start. How else will you learn lines and other key elements to track riding. Everyone else paid their money too. Why should they be put at risk because someone has an ego problem who just wants to go fast with no real desire to learn. After all trackdays are in essense riding schools with the exception of advanced.

Ummm.....obviously. What I was trying to say is that if Ride Smart wanted to make this rule that'd have to put everyone that has never ridden with THEM into novice to ensure they captured everyone. Read under my avatar: I have 10+ days. I'm anything but a novice, but I have never ridden with Ride Smart. It would be either

a. scary for me to ride in novice because of my pace (and i'm sure there are WAY faster guys that have never ridden with Ride Smart)

b. a waste of my money and disinsentive to ride with Ride Smart.



Read my other posts to: Hallett does this, but thats because they'rethe only racetrack in OK and they run the days THEMSELVES.........with paid cornerworkers......so they can make sure to capture all novice riders, and faster guys get bumped accordingly. The only exception to Hallett's rule is you can get out of novice your first time if you have a current race license.

However, the situation in Houston is obviously different: more tracks, more orgs, no permanent paid cornerworkers so making a rule like this is nearly impossible.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:16 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=cdill35;1833648]I am in awe that the idiot did not fess up and apologize. I would feel TERRIBLE if I had hurt someone, through noone's fault by my own. I would feel morally obligated to try to make it right as best I could.

What a POS.

I agree. A simple apology would have made it seemed like he was somewhat being considerate
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post

b. a waste of my money and disinsentive to ride with Ride Smart.
maybe, but then how would you feel if you were in the OPs shoes, now you've wasted a lot more $ then 1-2 sessions in a trackday.

where if it was dude's first time, and he were held in the slowest group. he would'nt be outriding his limits in intermed. group.

this isn't an real diff then the new rider 600SS bike argument, most think they are ready but what do they know.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
I am in awe that the idiot did not fess up and apologize. I would feel TERRIBLE if I had hurt someone, through noone's fault by my own. I would feel morally obligated to try to make it right as best I could.

What a POS.

And I agree, all first time riders should start in novice, even if is only for a few sessions. Then be evaluated and bumped. But, if I am a real tool, I can lie and sign up for whatever session I want. With all the orgs and tracks, noone would know until they saw me ride. Perhaps by that time, it would be too late.
[quote=C.Hern5972;1833664]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
I am in awe that the idiot did not fess up and apologize. I would feel TERRIBLE if I had hurt someone, through noone's fault by my own. I would feel morally obligated to try to make it right as best I could.

What a POS.

I agree. A simple apology would have made it seemed like he was somewhat being considerate
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
I am in awe that the idiot did not fess up and apologize. I would feel TERRIBLE if I had hurt someone, through noone's fault by my own. I would feel morally obligated to try to make it right as best I could.

What a POS.

And I agree, all first time riders should start in novice, even if is only for a few sessions. Then be evaluated and bumped. But, if I am a real tool, I can lie and sign up for whatever session I want. With all the orgs and tracks, noone would know until they saw me ride. Perhaps by that time, it would be too late.
+1

Just like with everything you have the bad apples who makes the majority look bad. This could have happened with any track day organization. It's an honor system and it's up to those who sign up to be as forthright as possible. Catching someone in the second session of the day would be impossible since the first session is spent showing the track and the lines at a reduced pace.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
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maybe, but then how would you feel if you were in the OPs shoes, now you've wasted a lot more $ then 1-2 sessions in a trackday.

where if it was dude's first time, and he were held in the slowest group. he would'nt be outriding his limits in intermed. group.

this isn't an real diff then the new rider 600SS bike argument, most think they are ready but what do they know.
And whats to say the same thing wouldn't have happened in novice? Its a fsckin track day. Crashes happen. Sometimes when people crash they crash into each other. , the last day I was at last year my roommate was mere inches away from running over a dude's head that went down right in front of him. Sticking people in novice doesn't gaurantee they won't crash. I've seen people run off during the round robin's!
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
maybe, but then how would you feel if you were in the OPs shoes, now you've wasted a lot more $ then 1-2 sessions in a trackday.

where if it was dude's first time, and he were held in the slowest group. he would'nt be outriding his limits in intermed. group.

this isn't an real diff then the new rider 600SS bike argument, most think they are ready but what do they know.

Ed-

If I had never ridden with, say TTD but I was a level 4 rider at Ridesmart. And TTD policy was that i MUST ride level 1, first.... I would not go. I dont think that is a feasible solution.

The only way, possibly, that this could have been prevented was to have evaluated the rider sooner.

I am not defending the culprit at all, but havent most of us, at some point, gotten in over our heads at a track day? Lord knows I have. Everytime someone runs off, they are in over thier head, IMO.

What seperates a real fkn tool from a real man/woman, is that they step up, take responsibility for thier actions and make amends. In addition to riding more responsibility.

It is a HUGE assumption here to say that the person that hit Graeme was at his first track day. No one, but the rider himself, knows that for sure.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I've seen people run off during the round robin's!
so have i, now put them in the intermed group and see what happens.........

cdill, you can always go talk w/ an inst. or guy running it and tell them your stats and ride for them.

vs joe squidly coming off the street and putting himself in th race group, cuz his heads swole up.......
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #37
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
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so have i, now put them in the intermed group and see what happens.........
They crash just the same as they would have in the novice group. I really don't see the difference.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GZX6R View Post
THIS IS IN NO WAY A DIRECT AFFRONT TO ANY RIDESMART TEAM MEMBER


As you probably all know by now, I'm the guy that clown (my language has relaxed somewhat since Saturday) t-boned at MSRH Sat 07 Mar, in Paul's round robin group.

Now this person (I don't know who, riding experience, nore any word of appology) clearly was not in control of what he was doing, target fixation was all he had going. I was almost on the apex of the turn, on the racing line, looking through the turn when my peripheral vision saw a bike coming directly at me with great relative speed, knocking me to the outside of the turn. Said rider continuedon as if this is normal track behavior (I think in public this would be hit and run), not so much as a look back (with respect to the RideSmart 'no stopping' rule of course).
The rest, with the ambo etc was there for all to see.

Which brings me to my point.

This rider should not have been in the Intermediate class as he clearly did not know the racing line or passing rules. Ridesmart should consider starting everyone in the novice class (I think from our initial riders meeting, only about 1/3 of our group had ridden this track), at least to teach them at the slower (and yes, boring) pace so that the racing line is not someting that has to be remembered at speed, released to the next level when proven they know whats going on.

Let's keep in mind, anyone of you reading this could have been laid up in hospital, broken up by this irresponsibility.

Now this should only cost me leathers and boots. Fortunately, I have an understanding boss who has the big picture of what we are doing in mind. and a company that will support me. Thinking further, if news of my stay in hospital leaked to my parents, it could very well kill my mother, as she has a very weak heart.

All as a result of the thoughtless actions of someone trying to 'win' a track day in the second session of the day....

I have'nt ridden a RideSmart event since 2005, since then have listened to the stories that RideSmart attracts idiots and has a higher crash tally than other operators. It would not be prudent to comment on this, but you get my point.

I must thank the first aid medics, RideSmart staff, Life Flight, hospital staff, friends and SBM members who visited me in hospital.
Now I'm home and working on the recovery. Fortunately the bike stayed upright, so it's ready to go.

I hope some good will come of this, and that everyone can continue riding bikes safely and gaining enormous amounts of fun.
Graeme

Sorry about the accident man .... happen to remember the bike?

and i have some video of lifeflight if u dont mind me posting
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
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They crash just the same as they would have in the novice group. I really don't see the difference.
except when they take a rider out like this post...........
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