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Old 03-09-2009, 09:52 PM   #41
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not to be taken the wrong way, but there should be an influx of trained and expirenced medics coming back out of military active duty or reserves. Hopefully they can be fast tracked into good level jobs releated to their expirence. That is so long as they want to stay in that line of work.

good info on this thread, prob one of the better reads on here in some time. I'm going have the directions to local ER in my track box next time out.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by kenup283 View Post
not to be taken the wrong way, but there should be an influx of trained and expirenced medics coming back out of military active duty or reserves. Hopefully they can be fast tracked into good level jobs releated to their expirence. That is so long as they want to stay in that line of work.

good info on this thread, prob one of the better reads on here in some time. I'm going have the directions to local ER in my track box next time out.
The unfortunate thing about the military medics is that very few of them qualify by rules for certification as a paramedic. Things may have changed since I last saw it, but often, these military medics have to take the whole course in order to become eligible to test with the State. Obviously, there are different levels of training in the military, and different specialties, but most of it holds true.

I agree, it would be nice to put these folks to work right away when they return!
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #43
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He won't treat anyone while at the track. Last year when Tim wrecked he gave him advice only pretty much.. He will be the first to tell you he is only giving advice and in no way he is diagnosing you. Yes I do feel safer while he is there because I trust his judgement. But that is just my opinion from what we experienced last year with Tim. I in no way speak for him.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:01 PM   #44
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Wow, good for TTD, that's good.

Question though, what can a doctor do that a paramedic can't? Just curious, LSTD may want to look in to that or something.
at the track, probably nothing. I think it is great to have any extra nurse, doc, ems on staff due to an already bad experience we had that could have been helped by having someone with experience being on staff as opposed to getting someone that doesn't trying to handle things.

I appoligize if that came off wrong just glad he is on board and was showing him some props as his experience has already came in useful once
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:03 PM   #45
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at the track, probably nothing. I think it is great to have any extra nurse, doc, ems on staff due to an already bad experience we had that could have been helped by having someone with experience being on staff as opposed to getting someone that doesn't trying to handle things.

I appoligize if that came off wrong just glad he is on board and was showing him some props as his experience has already came in useful once
Fair enough, I was just curious, didn't mean anything by it.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:06 PM   #46
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Last edited by cdill35; 03-09-2009 at 10:08 PM. Reason: got answer
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #47
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I'm confused. TTD has a doctor on staff, but he wont treat at the track?
yes we do have a doctor on staff, just as we have accountants,engineers and other things... just because they do something for a living does not mean they are there to treat people when something goes wrong. but they can offer advice and give there opinion at times
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:11 PM   #48
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yes we do have a doctor on staff, just as we have accountants,engineers and other things... just because they do something for a living does not mean they are there to treat people when something goes wrong. but they can offer advice and give there opinion at times
I got the answer. You quoted me too quick! When I first read it I thought yall hired a doctor for track side treatment.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:13 PM   #49
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I got the answer. You quoted me too quick!
my bad and I can't edit posts to delete it... got put in green and lost my edit button outside of the ttd section
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:17 AM   #50
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I think I was either misunderstood or perhaps I wasn't clear about what I was saying.

I wasn't meaning that you were making irrelevant statements, I meant that your application of that information was more applicable to the service providing care and NOT the general public. It's all part of the QA/ QC process that goes ignored all too often by private services. I've worked for plenty of them unfortunately over the years, and I know from first hand experience that what drives the privates is not good care, but good dollars. Patient care takes the "way back" seat as we used to call the very back of my Mom's '71 suburban.

It's not the protocols either- as JP mentioned, the protocols never vary too much or at all from the accepted standard of care. It's the training and QA/QC process that needs attention, and that's up to the provider/ service. It's also the mechanism that can get them in a whole lot of trouble. No matter to them though, they go out of business and start another get-rich-quick endeavor.

Regarding personnel, as mentioned, they're allowed to be a paramedic or EMT-B by the State and NR. There's no gauge there that says whether they can actually apply those skills, that's something that's acquired with time and experience. Show me a new paramedic and I'll show you a person who can pass a test. Show me a good paramedic, and I'll show you a person who has street skills, experience with assessment, can apply treatment based on those skills/ experience, and a person who doesn't crater under pressure- and can pass a test.

gotcha, i was pretty tired when i read and responded.
Probably read and replied after being awake for 20+ hours with most of that bouncing around in the back of an ambulance. To me, overall, it sounds like you just need to start hunting some new guys up to be trackside medics. The hard part will be finding one that has plenty of experience that is relevant and does not already have side work they are happy with. I wish I had the experience to do it, but that is a few years away at least.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:30 AM   #51
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gotcha, i was pretty tired when i read and responded.
Probably read and replied after being awake for 20+ hours with most of that bouncing around in the back of an ambulance. To me, overall, it sounds like you just need to start hunting some new guys up to be trackside medics. The hard part will be finding one that has plenty of experience that is relevant and does not already have side work they are happy with. I wish I had the experience to do it, but that is a few years away at least.
As mentioned in previous posts, we (LSTD) do not find and hire the trackside medics, they are provided (and paid for by us) by the tracks themselves.

We have medics on staff for operational safety but they (we) do help out with patient care when needed and provide a bit of oversight there too.

In a perfect world, we'd have our own complete crash/ rescue staff... this world is FAR from perfect.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:36 AM   #52
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As mentioned in previous posts, we (LSTD) do not find and hire the trackside medics, they are provided (and paid for by us) by the tracks themselves.

We have medics on staff for operational safety but they (we) do help out with patient care when needed and provide a bit of oversight there too.

In a perfect world, we'd have our own complete crash/ rescue staff... this world is FAR from perfect.
That really blows that the track is not providing skilled/experienced enough guys :(
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:01 AM   #53
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at the track, probably nothing. I think it is great to have any extra nurse, doc, ems on staff due to an already bad experience we had that could have been helped by having someone with experience being on staff as opposed to getting someone that doesn't trying to handle things.

I appoligize if that came off wrong just glad he is on board and was showing him some props as his experience has already came in useful once

Brena, nurses do NOT in any way shape or form belong at the track doing anything they are NOT trained to handle prehospital emergencies, they cannot work under the EMS practice act, and lots of other limitations that I'm not going to go into. If a person has an EMS certification/License(same thing) and happens to be a nurse too then its no big deal.

I agree with Tom, it is expensive to have a MD. on staff that actually treats at the track and its also expensive to have an actual "staff Medic" there are alot of costs involved that people don't know about, the tracks contract with a licensed provider, the state considers all medics equal even though they know they really aren't, so its up to the facility to notify the provider that they feel the personel on the bus aren't up to the job. The facility(track) rarely does this because they have no basis to make this kind of judgement and don't want the provider to tell them to go blow a goat, they also often use the least costly service to save money. The thing you have to remember in all this is that you as the patient have not only the responsibility but also the right to choose, be informed and take part in your medical care. I have a bad habit(if you will) I always assess a medic when I see them working, if they make a mistake I tend to call the ops supervisor if they blow the standard of care out of the water I can and will step in as well as file with DSHS for the problem, but the main problem is usually lack of experience,confidence and knowledge, and yes it is the emt's fault as well as the fault of the service and failure of the state to try and have the best trained people
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:10 AM   #54
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That really blows that the track is not providing skilled/experienced enough guys :(
You're putting words in my mouth to an extent here mang. I said I have only run in to it on a couple of occasions, each time when I was there or one of my staff was there, the problem was taken care of. I have heard of other instances from friends of mine who were with other TD orgs at a couple of tracks that had issues like the Life Flight issue that was discussed.

FWIW, the tracks don't know any better, all they need is a licensed provider to have a contract with and I'm sure in some instances they go with low bidder.

It's not the track's fault, as I've mentioned, it's the EMS provider's fault- that's the problem.

As I've mentioned before, I've not seen any/ many issues at TWS (Texas World Speedway), OHR, Cresson, Eagle's Canyon, Hallett... but I have seen/ heard of at other tracks what I would consider "issues" that I would be unhappy with as a customer and as a medic. IMHO of course.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:17 PM   #55
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Fair enough, I was just curious, didn't mean anything by it.
as you know my wife is a doc and I am a nurse and I graduated at the very top of my class. I don't think anyone else even came close. However the difference in my knowledge and judgment vs hers is about the same as the difference between yours and Howdydoody.

that said a doc with no hospital behind her is no better then a good emt.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:23 PM   #56
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The unfortunate thing about the military medics is that very few of them qualify by rules for certification as a paramedic. Things may have changed since I last saw it, but often, these military medics have to take the whole course in order to become eligible to test with the State. Obviously, there are different levels of training in the military, and different specialties, but most of it holds true.

I agree, it would be nice to put these folks to work right away when they return!
this is what regency or excelsior was set up for there are many excellent military medics that just need a few courses to become RNs.

Edit and according to my wife they make great trauma RNs.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:40 PM   #57
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Brena, nurses do NOT in any way shape or form belong at the track doing anything they are NOT trained to handle prehospital emergencies, they cannot work under the EMS practice act, and lots of other limitations that I'm not going to go into. If a person has an EMS certification/License(same thing) and happens to be a nurse too then its no big deal.

I agree with Tom, it is expensive to have a MD. on staff that actually treats at the track and its also expensive to have an actual "staff Medic" there are alot of costs involved that people don't know about, the tracks contract with a licensed provider, the state considers all medics equal even though they know they really aren't, so its up to the facility to notify the provider that they feel the personel on the bus aren't up to the job. The facility(track) rarely does this because they have no basis to make this kind of judgement and don't want the provider to tell them to go blow a goat, they also often use the least costly service to save money. The thing you have to remember in all this is that you as the patient have not only the responsibility but also the right to choose, be informed and take part in your medical care. I have a bad habit(if you will) I always assess a medic when I see them working, if they make a mistake I tend to call the ops supervisor if they blow the standard of care out of the water I can and will step in as well as file with DSHS for the problem, but the main problem is usually lack of experience,confidence and knowledge, and yes it is the emt's fault as well as the fault of the service and failure of the state to try and have the best trained people
man, must have been bad straight out of the academy, heck maybe even in it huh? your contradicting yourself. 1.) youre saying young medics with lack of experience, need a good medic with experience to help guide/train/mold them. that good, experienced trained medic to be there to watch over them and step in if they happen to drop the ball. 2.) then you say if you see them screw up, youre gonna drop dime on them to their supervisor, and call up tdh and snitch em out. i'm glad you weren't my mentor. maybe in this "perfect world" that you work in, well trained/experienced bad ace medics/ff's just step out of a time portal, ready to rock n roll.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:46 PM   #58
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man, must have been bad straight out of the academy, heck maybe even in it huh? your contradicting yourself. 1.) youre saying young medics with lack of experience, need a good medic with experience to help guide/train/mold them. that good, experienced trained medic to be there to watch over them and step in if they happen to drop the ball. 2.) then you say if you see them screw up, youre gonna drop dime on them to their supervisor, and call up tdh and snitch em out. i'm glad you weren't my mentor. maybe in this "perfect world" that you work in, well trained/experienced bad ace medics/ff's just step out of a time portal, ready to rock n roll.
you see someone screw up in medicine you let people know right away.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:56 PM   #59
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you see someone screw up in medicine you let people know right away.
yeah, the person who screwed up. especially if its someone new, fresh out of the classroom. how else are they supposed to learn. now dont get me wrong, im not talking about a life altering decision that killed somebody. but if its a brand new medic or emt, whats the point in calling tdh and getting the guys cert possibly ripped from him?
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:15 PM   #60
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yeah, the person who screwed up. especially if its someone new, fresh out of the classroom. how else are they supposed to learn. now dont get me wrong, im not talking about a life altering decision that killed somebody. but if its a brand new medic or emt, whats the point in calling tdh and getting the guys cert possibly ripped from him?
it all gets written on your record. Are they going to pull your lic for something that doesn't matter?? No not unless you have made your lifes work doing things wrong. I have a med error on my record and I turned myself in.
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