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Old 02-13-2009, 10:30 AM   #81
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:51 AM   #82
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if it was me on that situation, well i would be slow to react to what the cops want you to do.
i guess the cops surrounding the biker probably wants you and the passenger to jump off the bike, let the bike fall over to the ground, and wants them to drop on their knees or do a face plant and cross your legs behind and the arms straight out....right?
because hey...for some reason theirs 3 cop cars just flying around me and something is up but i dont know wtf so i must bend over for the pd right...f no
some cops need to chill out...the biker already pulled over and no body was injured or killed so why pull the guy off the bike
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Badzx14r View Post
man must teach you this at the academy ...its in the manner on how the police conduct themselves ..not how the laws are written...
Actually it is in the precedence set by other cases. If you abolish the law then you abolish the precedence that allows officers to act they way they act.

Officers are allowed to use any level of force reasonably believed to be necessary to effect an arrest.

Could the operator who was just committing felony evading (in the officer's mind) have took off again potentially causing serious bodily harm or death to himself or others? Yes.

Did the officer use an appropriate level of force to prevent this from happening? Yes

Was the officer in the wrong with the facts he had at his disposal? No

Was the officer in the wrong because of a mistake of fact? Yes

Here is a little law lesson. Subsection (c) specifically.

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH. (a) A peace officer, or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making an arrest or search, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after arrest, if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the arrest or search is lawful or, if the arrest or search is made under a warrant, he reasonably believes the warrant is valid; and

(2) before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to arrest or search and identifies himself as a peace officer or as one acting at a peace officer's direction, unless he reasonably believes his purpose and identity are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direction) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(c) A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (a) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or

(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to the actor or another if the arrest is delayed.

(d) A person other than a peace officer acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make a lawful arrest, or to prevent escape after a lawful arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (b) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the felony or offense against the public peace for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or

(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to another if the arrest is delayed.

(e) There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force justified by Subsection (c) or (d).

(f) Nothing in this section relating to the actor's manifestation of purpose or identity shall be construed as conflicting with any other law relating to the issuance, service, and execution of an arrest or search warrant either under the laws of this state or the United States.

(g) Deadly force may only be used under the circumstances enumerated in Subsections (c) and (d).
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelochas View Post
if it was me on that situation, well i would be slow to react to what the cops want you to do.
i guess the cops surrounding the biker probably wants you and the passenger to jump off the bike, let the bike fall over to the ground, and wants them to drop on their knees or do a face plant and cross your legs behind and the arms straight out....right?
because hey...for some reason theirs 3 cop cars just flying around me and something is up but i dont know wtf so i must bend over for the pd right...f no
some cops need to chill out...the biker already pulled over and no body was injured or killed so why pull the guy off the bike
Read my above post.

Just because the guy pulled over doesn't mean he is going to stay that way.

I suppose you want the officer to approach the suspect with his hands up in the air in a surrendering motion as to not upset the potential felon.

Asinine.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra281 View Post
In the officer's mind this was the person that was running from him, which is a felony in most states.

Do you know how to do a felony traffic stop?

You are supposed to pull them over and draw your weapon and point it at their melon while giving them commands to exit/get off the vehicle and lie face down.

The officer did not pull his weapon as he had the right to do. He was simply trying to get the operator of the motorcycle detained as soon as possible.

The operator was just running from the police (in the officer's mind) what makes you think he would not do it again?

All in all, it was an honest mistake.

Officers deal with the scum of the earth and each day they put their lives on the line to save our .

Sure they harass us sometimes for speeding and acting a fool while riding, but the laws are there for the greater good of the community.

The laws are there to protect Johnny and Suzy and their family.

If you choose to break the law you choose to pay the consequences.
yea well I got my degree in computer science not criminal justice

Listen I hear what you are saying, and yes you are correct but I have read everyone's post and the way some of you are responding is as though you are a cop yourself, that's fine! by all means enlighten us, educate us. There is always another way of handling a situation, You know if someone is a higher threat, a older man, on a bike, with a girl on the back, 3 cops , his hands up and are away from his body ... soooooo honestly, do you really think that the action taken by the cop was really necessary .If "you"are on your bike, stopped for a wrong assumption, the cop already angry, comes yells, get off the bike! and you say ok and before your able to even have time to begin the procedure to dismount , he yanks you off, shrugg* so I mean... you don't see anything wrong with that? I mean thinking as a human, not as an officer"assuming u are" or general defense of an officer by researching google for traffic procedures.
Yes I agree, they do put their lives in the line of fire everyday for us, but was this situation life threatening?
E.g. I am a rank fighter in 2 styles of martial arts, someone deliberately steps on my shoes and runs off ,in the process i cant catch him so im .. so another person steps on my shoes and throws his hands up , it was an accident....so does that give me the right to grab him by his neck and put him in a guillotine choke hold till he can breathe cause im that the other dude stepped on my shoe and this dude could have just walked around me, but he still wrong though
so I mean whats your argument gonna be? that this example is not compared to a traffic stop, or is this a demonstration of how angry frustrated emotions can inflict harm to someone that wasn't a threat
I mean if the education from the post(s) is to 1)not run from the cops 2) if someone else runs and your in the wrong place at the wrong time, don't make a sudden move and hopes that they don't pull you over just cause you fit the description, then the point is taken.
But im human, and if I get drugged off a bike out of a car for nothing I have done, then no im not going to understand why the action had to proceed the way it did. But as i stated, I am just a computer programmer not a police officer who doesn't have the authority to drag someone off a bike *shrugg*
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:20 AM   #86
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The main difference in your analogy is that you knew it was not the original person who stepped on your shoes. Additionally, stepping on your shoes is not a life threatening offence unless you are immortal with "Achilles" toes.

The officer admitted he was wrong. He believed that the offender was right there before him. That is why he acted like he did.

His actions were necessary in his mind. If a person is a felon, you treat them like a felon.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:21 AM   #87
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Check the video again. The cop saw the bike passing on the shoulder, that would be Probable cause for the stop. Yes, the ongoing pursuit did influence his actions. Finally, when is there not someone yelling you got the wrong guy?? if you believe that one try to find one guilty person in jail.
the Video I saw has the bike on the shoulder as the second cop coming around him in the grass.
The COP SAYS he saw him pass on the shoulder...and assumed he was one of the 'speeders'.

" Finally, when is there not someone yelling you got the wrong guy?? if you believe that one try to find one guilty person in jail."

Yes because 'cagers' always come in packs escorting 'speeding' motorcycles for just this purpose? And everyone always drives by or pulls up on the road telling you that you grab the wrong one.



Gee Cobra you can quote law...but guess what. It would seem that officers actions are under review with a possible 5 day suspension. It would seem his actions were not necessarily 'justified' in the situation.





Quote:
Just because the guy pulled over doesn't mean he is going to stay that way.
I suppose you want the officer to approach the suspect with his hands up in the air in a surrendering motion as to not upset the potential felon.
Asinine.
and it doesn't mean that he is going to try to run or anything either.
The officer had him in a wrist lock... so its NOT like the guy is gonna just grab the throttle and ride off into the sunset.

Lets consider.. a flashlight or nightstick in the wheel would keep him from riding off. A flat would really limit his ability to speed off and get away too.

Holding him in the wristlock until the other officer cuffed and/or put the pillion in the car and could come assist was not an option?



Asinine is right... asinine in justifying that level of action and force in that situation displayed. No better than trying to justify pulling someone out of a window or a car because they didn't remove the seatbelt or hand over their license 'fast' enough.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:22 AM   #88
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you can't keep making excuses for these 'tards.

they'll abuse power like they're priest.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:23 AM   #89
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:24 AM   #90
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:26 AM   #91
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Quote:
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Read my above post.

Just because the guy pulled over doesn't mean he is going to stay that way.

I suppose you want the officer to approach the suspect with his hands up in the air in a surrendering motion as to not upset the potential felon.

Asinine.
if the suspect is potentially a life or death situation, then the cop needs to show that. the cop fearing of anything should have their guns pointing and advising to get off the bike and dont move..this takes time and constant communication. INSTEAD the cop just got off the popo car, walk over there, and pulled and yank the rider off the bike...where the do you see the cop is in fear of his life. he was not even thinking...that cop broke procedure.

so lets say this was a real muthafudda with a gun...hes been running and off all the popos...when they finally get the felon, the popo is going to just walk over and pull the felon off the bike. no...the procedure that occured in the video is half azz of one procedure and half azz another procedure. wtf
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:27 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badzx14r View Post
cobra probably find the way the off duty cop throwing a wal-mart greeter to the floor as acceptable cop behavior ...i mean after all the wal-mart greeter did touch the off duty out of uniform cop
No. I actually make informed decisions based on each set of circumstances.

Never heard of that one though.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:35 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra281 View Post
His actions were necessary in his mind. If a person is a felon, you treat them like a felon.
Wrong!

You do what you have to do to protect yourself, but you shouldn't physically handle someone a certain way based off what you assume about them.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:38 AM   #94
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Wrong!

You do what you have to do to protect yourself, but you shouldn't physically handle someone a certain way based off what you assume about them.
When dealing with potential felons you will absolutely escalate the level of force used quicker than with Grandma Groceries or you could wind up dead.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:54 AM   #95
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innocent until PROVEN guilty.

bet OJ didn't get treated like that...
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Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true, Jerry lee lewis was the devil, Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet; All of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world...So there was only one thing that I could do/
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:08 PM   #96
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rofl... imagine sheriff john benell (whatever the dudes name the narates world wildest police chases) natateing this video...

i have a serious hate for that guy...he's such a 'tard.
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Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true, Jerry lee lewis was the devil, Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet; All of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world...So there was only one thing that I could do/
ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:47 PM   #97
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:21 PM   #98
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:23 PM   #99
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Quote:
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I sue his for any damages caused by the douchebag jerking him off the bike. That was bullsh!t.
+1000000000000 fukin
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:36 PM   #100
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