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Old 02-03-2009, 01:04 AM   #21
Greg in H-town
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How much would you be able to tune a carburated engine on a dyno w/o changing parts (exhaust, intake filters, etc.) or engine mods? Re-jetting maybe? Just curious - my bike's been in Patrick's shop many times and has always come out running strong, so I'm not trying to fix a problem, but I'm wondering what could be done with a non-FI engine.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:11 AM   #22
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syncing carbs takes time.
dyno time cost money, so tune the carbs for what you wanna run...

meaning, if your timing, cam timing, exhaust, & compression are designed for a specific rpm range (say 7k-10krpm) the carb would have to be tuned/jetted to run most efficiently at that rpm.

FI bikes are easier, but the high-rich rough idle of a performance carb'd engine is awesome compared to the wimpy buzz my bike spews out at idle..
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:51 PM   #23
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Gryphin- you're not comparing apples to apples with regard to what you got from Powersport's dyno and NW Honda's dyno from Patrick. Two different dyno's, two different operators, good possibility one of them isn't properly kept or calibrated (it's not NW, that only leaves one...).

For instance, on Metric's dyno, my 750 got 114 hp at the wheel, which is what you got from your 600, yet mine made more power than yours did. How? Two different dynos.

What you should shoot for from a dyno tune is not how much hp you can "get", but that the fuel/ spark is optimized for best performance. What numbers you get are really kinda irrelevant especially when comparing two different dynos. I won't even get in to the ways operators can manipulate numbers on the dyno for final results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg in H-town View Post
How much would you be able to tune a carburated engine on a dyno w/o changing parts (exhaust, intake filters, etc.) or engine mods? Re-jetting maybe? Just curious - my bike's been in Patrick's shop many times and has always come out running strong, so I'm not trying to fix a problem, but I'm wondering what could be done with a non-FI engine.
You can get a lot out of tuning a carb'd bike, but like any other bike (FI or carbureated) without mods like full exhaust and air filter with a jet kit, you're not going to get a whole lot of change in performance with stock parts.

No need to re-jet the stock bike with stock bits 99 times of 100. Same goes for dyno-tuning an FI bike. Sometimes they can free up some hp from a stock bike, but not enough to really matter. Sometimes though a factory jet will not be the proper jetting for your bike/ this climate/ elevation/ etc. Not often, but sometimes.

In order to increase hp and get the most out of your engine, you'll need some add-ons and modifications along with dyno tuning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Gunslinger View Post
syncing carbs takes time.
dyno time cost money, so tune the carbs for what you wanna run...

meaning, if your timing, cam timing, exhaust, & compression are designed for a specific rpm range (say 7k-10krpm) the carb would have to be tuned/jetted to run most efficiently at that rpm.

FI bikes are easier, but the high-rich rough idle of a performance carb'd engine is awesome compared to the wimpy buzz my bike spews out at idle..
Synchronizing and dyno tuning are completely different things. Synchronizing carbureators is just what the name implies- "synchronizing" multiple carbureators to work together. Dyno tuning changes to a carbureated bike will tell the operator where to set needle height, main jet size, pilot jet size, etc.

Most engines benefit from dyno-tuning when modifications are made that are of consequence, simple slip-on exhaust and air filter generally yield only small gains or none.

Use a reputable shop for dyno tuning, not everyone can do it properly. Simply "having" a dyno doesn't mean squat if you don't have someone to operate it that is a student of the craft.

I've heard lots of folks have luck with Motorcycles Unlimited.

I personally as well as the whole LSTD crew, have had nothing but exceptional service from Patrick and crew

I do however have my dyno tuning done at Metric Motorcycles in the Heights, and have had just awesome results there.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:00 PM   #24
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andy @ metric, billy @ tejas motorsports, or freddy @ eastside honda
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:15 PM   #25
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unless you get a baseline dyno before you start adding stuff, you really don't know how much you've gained as TOM has explained.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:36 PM   #26
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unless you get a baseline dyno before you start adding stuff, you really don't know how much you've gained as TOM has explained.
Right, but that really isn't the point either (unless people just want to compare phallic dimensions).

If you just have to know what your money got you, then yeah, get a baseline without the mods first. Unless you're a vendor or sponsored rider for a big team, you're not going to get to compare different products on your bike anyway. Most of us can only compare what we buy based on other's experience/ opinion to our stock stuff because we can't afford to go buy 4 different pipes to compare readouts to for instance.

Basically imho, just buy the parts you want, like an exhaust system, BMC filter, and a PCIII and then get the dyno tuning done. If you just want to know what the gains were, spend the money on a baseline with stock stuff and add parts with more pulls per part added to see what you've gained.

Most of us can't afford that...

Don't forget too, if you purchase a $30 dyno run, that's exactly what you'll get.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Gryphin- you're not comparing apples to apples with regard to what you got from Powersport's dyno and NW Honda's dyno from Patrick. Two different dyno's, two different operators, good possibility one of them isn't properly kept or calibrated (it's not NW, that only leaves one...).

For instance, on Metric's dyno, my 750 got 114 hp at the wheel, which is what you got from your 600, yet mine made more power than yours did. How? Two different dynos.

What you should shoot for from a dyno tune is not how much hp you can "get", but that the fuel/ spark is optimized for best performance. What numbers you get are really kinda irrelevant especially when comparing two different dynos. I won't even get in to the ways operators can manipulate numbers on the dyno for final results.


You can get a lot out of tuning a carb'd bike, but like any other bike (FI or carbureated) without mods like full exhaust and air filter with a jet kit, you're not going to get a whole lot of change in performance with stock parts.

No need to re-jet the stock bike with stock bits 99 times of 100. Same goes for dyno-tuning an FI bike. Sometimes they can free up some hp from a stock bike, but not enough to really matter. Sometimes though a factory jet will not be the proper jetting for your bike/ this climate/ elevation/ etc. Not often, but sometimes.

In order to increase hp and get the most out of your engine, you'll need some add-ons and modifications along with dyno tuning.

Synchronizing and dyno tuning are completely different things. Synchronizing carbureators is just what the name implies- "synchronizing" multiple carbureators to work together. Dyno tuning changes to a carbureated bike will tell the operator where to set needle height, main jet size, pilot jet size, etc.

Most engines benefit from dyno-tuning when modifications are made that are of consequence, simple slip-on exhaust and air filter generally yield only small gains or none.

Use a reputable shop for dyno tuning, not everyone can do it properly. Simply "having" a dyno doesn't mean squat if you don't have someone to operate it that is a student of the craft.

I've heard lots of folks have luck with Motorcycles Unlimited.

I personally as well as the whole LSTD crew, have had nothing but exceptional service from Patrick and crew

I do however have my dyno tuning done at Metric Motorcycles in the Heights, and have had just awesome results there.

thus why i posted a dyno sheet with a baseline.. and then the tune.... and it just happens to be the same baseline hp as patricks..
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:42 PM   #28
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so do any of you think that just putting on the p/c would hurt anything if i just put it on my bike with out getting it tuned
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:51 PM   #29
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The PC is going to come with a canned tune(s). It should have different canned tunes for different mods that you have on the bike: pipe, full exhaust, free-flowing filter, etc. If you don't have any other mods then the PC won't do anything more for you than the stock tune that came on the bike.

The bike is going to come with a rich tune from the factory, so you could lean it out a little with the PC and no other mods, but you're still not going to see much in the way of performance gains without some other mods.

Today's bikes are so good from the factory that the day's of putting on an exhaust and PC and seeing 10% HP gains are gone.

I'd say your money would be better spent on brakes, suspension, etc. before a PC - if you don't really have any need for a computer's new tune.

I have Ford lightning with that came with a smaller supercharger pulley and exhaust. The guy I bought it from a had a Diablosport programmer with a canned tune that was supposed to be good for supporting those mods. However, with the canned tune he truck was detonating at WOT. I'd fully suggest getting a dyno tune with any mods that are going to change or require a change of A/F.

No canned tunes!
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Old 02-07-2009, 04:05 PM   #30
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There is a good chance that if you put a pc on without a tune, you will lose hp and or rideability...
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Old 02-07-2009, 05:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kooguysracing View Post
so do any of you think that just putting on the p/c would hurt anything if i just put it on my bike with out getting it tuned
It's not going to hurt anything other than performance.

You can also download maps off the net that will possibly get you close or even be dead-on-, but doubtful.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:06 AM   #32
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so i think iam going to sell it i have raced some other 1k and won so i dont think i need it thanks guys for the help
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