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Old 01-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #1
Prodigy
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I need advice on upgrades

I need really good brakes with alot of feel and a front wheel that doesnt have any drag what so ever. Im wanting to roll very long stoppies but I have a very hard time even turning my front wheel by hand.

Brake lines for the front end

http://www.ozpowersports.com/eshoppr...RAKE_LINES.htm


http://www.ozpowersports.com/eshoppr...2-LINE_SPO.htm


http://www.ozpowersports.com/eshoppr...PRO_RACING.htm


Master Cylinder for the front end

Brembo or Magura not yet sure of which master

http://www.oppracing.com/products/11...ter-cylinders/

Front Wheel Bearings

I have checked out the all race bearings but I need advice for bearing with the least amount of rolling resistance.
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:07 PM   #2
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A buddy has a CBR600RR that he says has a lot of rolling resistance unless he uses stock Honda brake pads. Then he says it spins real free and he likes the brake action as well.
Might be worth a try if you are using aftermarket.
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:20 PM   #3
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free floating rotors.....you may be able to break the circle rings yourself to make them free floaters. i know you can do it with suzuki's, not sure about honda's.

as for master cylinder.....brembo 19x18....the 19x20 will be too much and too sensative, no experience with magura

get some superbike -2 brakelines.....retails usually around 180 or something like that. i'm sure one of your sponsors can get it for you with a homie hookup.

lighter forged wheel would make a HUGE difference in how free rolling the wheel spins also.
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:25 PM   #4
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have you experimented with aftermarket wheel bearings at all? And what differences would 1 line and dual lines have other than the obvious?
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:33 PM   #5
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im really diggin these lines

http://www.galferusa.com/html/superbike_lines.html
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:39 PM   #6
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I think a better place to ask would be stunt life dont you? Ask the pro's. People who acually roll endo's.
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:44 PM   #7
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no the endo rollers wont tell you the secrets plus im asking questions about products not stoppie advice
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:00 PM   #8
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I would say free floating rotors and looking into the bearings you have now as to why your wheel won't spin as it is.

I have no experience with aftermarket bearings, but know they have some ceramic stuff out. Also not very sure how that would hold up to stunting...
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:01 PM   #9
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Have you looked into ceramic bearings? I have heard good things about them.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:12 PM   #10
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joe you need to use stock honda pads. aftermarket pads eat up rotors and fade fast. im sure you notice, you go threw pads like nothing. try a set of oem pads for a change. might cost more but im sure there worth it. also get yourself a radial 19x18
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
but I have a very hard time even turning my front wheel by hand.
maybe your front axle is no bueno. that's what happened to mine from over tightening the front axle. slapped a new (well new to me from ebay) axle on, and wheel spins fine again.

you can tell by the threads on the axle nut.....if it breaks loose, and you can't spin it off by hand or it's very hard to spin off by hand.....you probably need a new axle.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:46 PM   #12
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^ very interesting
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
maybe your front axle is no bueno. that's what happened to mine from over tightening the front axle. slapped a new (well new to me from ebay) axle on, and wheel spins fine again.

you can tell by the threads on the axle nut.....if it breaks loose, and you can't spin it off by hand or it's very hard to spin off by hand.....you probably need a new axle.
was this on your rr? Im having a similar issue. It draggs but not ALOT, but enough for me to notice something isnt right.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsusRR View Post
joe you need to use stock honda pads. aftermarket pads eat up rotors and fade fast. im sure you notice, you go threw pads like nothing. try a set of oem pads for a change. might cost more but im sure there worth it. also get yourself a radial 19x18
I agree that race pads can be harder on rotors, but I don't know about after market pads fading fast. I've run both the EBC HH pads and a couple of different types of Vesrah's and I've never had pad fade. All track, high speed with late braking on a gsxr 1K with my huge body mass on it. If you are wear through pads quickly, I'd try a vesrah SRJLs. Huge initial bite and an exceptionally long wear rate.

Fluid fade is much more common and is the result of water in the lines. When the fluid temperature gets very high, the water begins to boil and the lever will get very mushy. Castrol SRF is highly non hygroscopic (i.e. it doesn't absorb water), but is very expensive. Outside of that, Motul 600 is great as is SuperBlue. We had a thread about fluids a while back in which I offered data on several different types.

I'd also take a really hard look at the calipers and make sure there is no corrosion that is causing the brake pistons to hang up.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:47 PM   #15
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Joe,
First off, try to isolate why your front wheel is dragging.
Pull the calipers off and spin the front wheel.
If it spins freely, you've got brake issues. I'll cover that in a minute.

If it doesn't spin freely, check your axle, axle torque, wheel bearings, spacers, (inner and outer) and if your forks are square.

If it's your brakes, make sure the lever on your master cylinder isn't bent and partially applying the brakes, check your calipers and see if the pistons are retracting when you release pressure.
Make sure your rotors are straight and not burnt. Badly burnt rotors will "cone" which will increase drag.


My advice would be to install new bearings, nothing fancy, just OEM, and make sure everything goes back together square and properly torqued.

We played with ceramics on some of the drag bikes as well as some of the top speed bikes and the gain is very negligible.


As far as brakes, rebuild the calipers with new seals and pistons so they work smoother and retract fully when released.

Add new lines, but stay away from the -2 lines as the column of fluid is significantly reduced and you'll be more likely to have fade.

Add a radial Brembo 19x18 and use a high quality fluid. I prefer the Motul RBF.

I would definitely recommend going with fully floating rotors, once again the Brembos work very well and offer a very good coefficient of friction.
As far as pads, once the calipers are rebuilt and if the rotors are fully floating, drag will be pretty non existent.
At that point go with the pads that gives you the most feel and feedback.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Joe,
First off, try to isolate why your front wheel is dragging.
Pull the calipers off and spin the front wheel.
If it spins freely, you've got brake issues. I'll cover that in a minute.

If it doesn't spin freely, check your axle, axle torque, wheel bearings, spacers, (inner and outer) and if your forks are square.

If it's your brakes, make sure the lever on your master cylinder isn't bent and partially applying the brakes, check your calipers and see if the pistons are retracting when you release pressure.
Make sure your rotors are straight and not burnt. Badly burnt rotors will "cone" which will increase drag.


My advice would be to install new bearings, nothing fancy, just OEM, and make sure everything goes back together square and properly torqued.

We played with ceramics on some of the drag bikes as well as some of the top speed bikes and the gain is very negligible.


As far as brakes, rebuild the calipers with new seals and pistons so they work smoother and retract fully when released.

Add new lines, but stay away from the -2 lines as the column of fluid is significantly reduced and you'll be more likely to have fade.

Add a radial Brembo 19x18 and use a high quality fluid. I prefer the Motul RBF.

I would definitely recommend going with fully floating rotors, once again the Brembos work very well and offer a very good coefficient of friction.
As far as pads, once the calipers are rebuilt and if the rotors are fully floating, drag will be pretty non existent.
At that point go with the pads that gives you the most feel and feedback.

Hope this helps.
awesome help , as always!
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:52 PM   #17
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Nice write up, Patrick.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
was this on your rr? Im having a similar issue. It draggs but not ALOT, but enough for me to notice something isnt right.
nope, on the gsxr, i had pretty bad drag on the wheel.....and isolated it down to be an overstressed axle from tightening them down too hard.....i knew it was the problem because the threading of the screw was getting thin and hard to screw on and off.


AND HOLY COW, PATRICK COMES TO SAVE THE DAY AGAIN.....always informative.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:07 PM   #19
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Thanks that was the type of answer i've been looking for regarding the brake lines. But is -2 the diameter of the lines or the number leaving the master? I dont really want to try the free floating rotors because ive read online where it adds alot of vibration to the front end. I need the front end to be very stable however im not as concerned about the "groaning noise" that most riders report having. I was tempted to purchase a set of bearings from www.microblueracing.com they seem to have a very convincing sales write up
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:11 PM   #20
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Diameter of the lines.

As far as vibration, No One I've ever dealt with had any issues, and we're braking from +150 mph.

As far as ceramic and other bearings, while they MAY spin a bit easier with the wheel off the ground, in the real world it's made no real difference in either top speed or quarter mile times, so the alleged benefit is not measurable.
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