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Old 01-09-2006, 03:35 PM   #1
TireKiller
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Kleen Air System

I've been reading about removing the Kleen air system on my Zx12 and using the vaccum from the reed valves on top of the cam cover to evacuate the crank case.. Alot of the busa guys say it gets em like 2-7 HP, has anyone tried it on a Zx12 or any other kawasaki bike? The reed valves seem to be pulling about 10-14 inches of vaccum so I imagine that would be enough to pull some XS gasses from the crank case.. I'm gonna go ahead and try it tonight but, lemme know if any of you guys have experience with this..

Thanks..
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:34 AM   #2
john @ks
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yeah i have done it and it realy dosent give u much but it mainly helps ur motor last a lil longer b\c it keeps from bad air going into ur air box.
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Old 01-10-2006, 06:06 PM   #3
Patrick
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Quote:
but it mainly helps ur motor last a lil longer b\c it keeps from bad air going into ur air box.

Not trying to be a smartass but what "bad air" is the airbox recieving that will shorten engine life?
If you mean air from the crankcase, no, it's not the best air in the world for helping the combustion process, but it doesn't shorten the life of the engine in any way.



TireKiller,
To answer your question, unless you're drag racing the bike, it's not worth the time, plus at lower RPM cruising you are not generating enough CFM to properly vent the crankcase. I'd remove and bypass the the PAIR valves system, but I'd leave the crankcase vent alone.

BTW, The most I've ever seen on a dyno from a modded crankcase evacuation system is a little over 1 hp at almost redline.
Reading these forums it's amazing how HP numbers "magically" grow.





Patrick
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Old 01-10-2006, 06:57 PM   #4
john @ks
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acautly it dose get a bunch of particals u dont want to get into ur intake. first no matter how good rings are on the piston. u get leakage around them and thats what burns oil and makes it were u have to changes the oil sooner than a 2 stroke. also if u look were they put the inlet into the airbox they have a lil foam filter there to try to keep lil bits of grit from coming into the air box. also if u pull a bike's air box of who has been running the kleen air system for like 5 years. u will see a lil trail of grit from were the inlet is. it is true that it dosent give u hardly any hp and most i have seen is a 1\2 of a hp gain. i would just go buy a k and n crank case filter and get rid of it. also make sure u plug up the hole in the air box. also putting a vacume in the crank case dose not work b\c one simple fact that it will fight the piston coming back up. we have tried putting a vacume to the crank case and tried all the differant ways to do it. it just dosent work and is a waste of time. also i miss read what u posted at first but i would eleminate the kleen air system. just u realy got 2 watch out what u read on the net b\c like patric said its funny how hp numbers show up.
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Last edited by john @ks; 01-10-2006 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:26 PM   #5
Patrick
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O.K, I'm trying to follow your post.
First off let's establish that the Kleen air system and the crankcase vent are 2 different things. Do we agree on that?

Now, a crankcase vent takes air out of the engine and vents it into the airbox, where some of it is burned during the combustion process.
Some, but an extremely minute amount, might go past the rings back to where it came from; the crankcase.
The air coming out of the crankcase, other than it having an oil mist in it, is clean. The oil mist, also has no effect in increasing wear. Nor does it have any real measurable detrimental effect to the combustion process.
More to the point, the air coming from the engine crankcase is going into the airbox and then to where?
Back into the engine it just came out of!
Through the intake and exhaust valves, and eventually out of the engine. No harm no foul.

The Kleen system, takes fresh air OUT of the airbox and circulates it through reed valves in the head, and then into the exhaust port placed after the exhaust valve.
It's purpose is to add fresh air to the exhaust flow to help with emissions.
The Kleen system DOES NOT put air INTO the airbox., it takes it OUT.
So how can it contaminate the intake?

As far as vacuum pumps go, I, as well as Byron Hines, Brock Davidson and Lee Sheirts, among many others disagree with you.
They do work, providing that they generate enough vacuum to significantly reduce crankcase pressure.
It's also highly improbable for a vacuum pump to fight a piston coming back up.
It would have to create enough suction drag to overcome the force of the combustion process happening to the opposing piston. (assuming it's has at least two pistons.)

Last but not least, if the airbox isn't cleaned out every time the filter is changed, the "trail" you see is actually a small accumulation of particles that made it THROUGH the air filter and have become captured in the oil mist left by the crankcase vent.
The foam filter is there to help dampen the chance of any oil being sucked into the airbox under decel from a high RPM.
As we've already established that the Kleen system does not put air into the airbox it cannot come from the Kleen system.

I'd be happy to discuss this further offline if you're interested.


Patrick
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Last edited by Patrick; 01-10-2006 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 01-12-2006, 12:32 AM   #6
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i do agree that they are 2 differant things and i just disagree on the other things u said. sorry if my post wasnt clear b\c i was tring to do 2 things at 1 time. i just know that i have tried vacume pumps and they dont work. they rob a lil bit of hp and the kleen air system is supose to not let exhaust into the air box. the problem is that it dose tend to afther it gets a lil worn. i tested it meny times and afther a year it starts not to work the way it supose to. also the grit i noticed was in airboxs that i personily cleaned my self. so i am just saying what i have learned and tested my self. but its cool everyone has there own opion and has the right to express it lol. so if it works for u, Byron Hines, Brock Davidson and Lee Sheirts thats cool. i am just saying we have built bikes for team suzuki, yosh, and meny other top name teams. lets just agree to disagree b\c were not going to change each other minds lol. but hey u do what works for u and thats cool. well yeah maby we could talk about it one day off line.
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Last edited by john @ks; 01-13-2006 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 01-15-2006, 09:02 PM   #7
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Tirekiller, try these (2) sites for tons of info on the ZX-12R:

http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/index.php

www.bikeland.org
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Old 01-15-2006, 10:22 PM   #8
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john and pat that was badass. you both decussed something and where both profectionals about it i like that. Keep up the good work.
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