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Old 01-11-2009, 02:56 PM   #1
maxgs
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Clutch Issue / Great Mechanic

I ran across this clutch issue on gixxer.com. The guys that diagnosed and resolved the problem are pretty creative; we need more of these types of mechanics.

-----------------

Help PLEASE!!!

My K7 has been driving me insane over the last month.

Scenario - Everytime after I ride her hard (to redline through gears, or hold close to limiter in 5th or 6th)..close the throttle..then I have NO clutch :mad :mad Pull the lever all the way in...feels like there is no fluid in system....then cruise for while...comes back a little bit!!!

Collected bike today from Stealership for the 4TH time after supposed fix...Little tells me he bled the system through again and adjusted this and that and other ...test rode it three times and its now fixed...OK!!!!

Take on testride...join road with no traffic and nail bike through gears ...when try to change to 4th cant get in gear as there is no clutch....upshift without clutch to 4th 5th and 6th no problem...but downshift is issue since i tend to use clutch on downshift...at trafficlight bike stalls as I have NO clutch!!!

Went back to Stealership to tell them they will never see me again and leave :mad

Any advice or someone who experienced similar "fading" please advise. I do not drag the clutch or abuse it in anyway...but i do like to ride very fast high revs....yes on the road...but only deserted ones...few of them close to where I stay.

Think its getting air into the system somehow as can see faint bubbles in reservoir

Agree that Suzuki should replace this under warrantee???

--------

After the 2nd time the idiots at stealership replaced all the fluids and "blead" the system to get rid of air it was ok for about a week as I rode it gently like fookin cruiser...Then on piece of rode outside town had quick run against MV Agusta....as soon as got of the throttle after being hard on gas...NO CLUTCH.....Guy wanted another run to see if he had better luck 2nd time...had to decline as had NO CLUTCH :mad :mad

GSXR is not meant to be nursed around in fear of losing the clutch

If go start it now there is about half clutch - mean you pull clutch half way in before can feel any resistance. If i keep riding very nicely it will stay like that....Guaranteed 1st time I nail her ...Clutch will be gone again.

Contacting Suzuki directly on Monday...Will take it in as these around here only know how to work on Cable Clutches

---------

Very long story

Summary:

They phoned me and said they established that its the Growler causing problems...the "frequency"the pipe makes at high revs causes the Fluid to "boil" and make bubbles!!!

Told them to right of this planet. Then they invited me there and put the bike on Dyno.

Ran the bike on Dyno with STOCK pipes...Hard (13000rpm in 4th for minute or two) nothing happened and when done with run...Clutch still perfect.

Then replaced stock pipes with Growler ....Ran it the same ( had earphones on and still almost died of noise )..Told me to watch the clutch reservoir....after bout a minute the bubbles started appearing and after 2 minutes looked like fluid had foam ontop....stop run....NO CLUTCH at all!!!!!

Then they said they convinced Growler causing weird frequency that resonates and causes problems in fluid

Think its bullshit....but saw it happen with my own eyes...

Took bike home with Growler on after they bled the clutch again....put some rubber spacers under the clutch line where it touches against the frame and hoped it would help.

Rode bike hard last week and ok SOFAR

What I do not understand is this:

If pipe makes fluid in Clucth Reservoir bubble....why not the Fluid in the Brake Reservoir too???? According to Owners Manual its the same fluid (DOT 4) Maybe cause its a bigger container than the Clutch reservoir??

Can only imagine the replies I will get :o Friends here allready saying I should call X files and other comments like Rosswell and Alien Bike

Hope someone can offer some explanation or advice... Im IT Auditor so this frequency stuff does not make any sense to me

--------

Put Growler back on after this last test....I checked the clutch line where it leaves the reservoir and the it runs down the frame...I then placed rubber everywhere inbetween this clutch line and the frame...figured that the frame is where the vibration is from....NO more problems for now !! Bike is on 9500miles now and running smoothly ( very loud )
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:48 PM   #2
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that was long...
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:43 PM   #3
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that is crazy symptoms/fix
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #4
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I would have never thought of the exhaust being the cause of a clutch issue. I'm impressed that the shop put the bike on the dyno to figure out what was happening. Good guys.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
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I would have never thought of the exhaust being the cause of a clutch issue. I'm impressed that the shop put the bike on the dyno to figure out what was happening. Good guys.
seriously i would have never thought to consider the exhaust
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:11 PM   #6
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I bet the mechanic was like "no way!" when he finally noticed what was going on with the brake fluid! I bet he probably chased the problem for days too trying to figure out wtf was wrong with the guy's bike!
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:16 PM   #7
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:27 PM   #8
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I have one.

E65(745i) every week had a TPM(tire pressure monitor) fault come on. All the tires were at a good level. If you reset the system, it would work for a bit then fail again. All the sensors in the wheels and spare worked, batteries were good, antennaes in the wheel wells were good.

The low frequency from Bosche spark plugs were causing the front sensor signals to be distorted. I replaced them w NGK spark plugs and the issue went away. A short production break was effected by this choice in spark plugs.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:36 PM   #9
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I studied this kind of thing in school. Very neat stuff.
And he's right: the reason the brake fluid wasn't affected was because of the volume of the system - that and the brakes are more isolated from the vibrations. By changing the volume you change the resonant frequency. The clutch fluid comes into direct contact with the engine block.

Kudos to the mech. that found the problem. We could use more dedicated people like that.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:40 PM   #10
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That's a cool one.

Hey, Cali, just left the M5 at your dealership. Very weird problem. Would get intermittent heavy vibration through the pedals and shifter. Push in the clutch the the vibration usually went away only to come back further down the road. Nary a warning light in sight. Water and oil temps below normal. Driving at a high gear and low rpm seems to avoid the problem.

Anyway, look forward to hearing what y'all think. Keep 'em honest for me Cali. Last time I was there, they wanted $2,500 for a brake job. Said I needed rotors and pads all the way around. Hadn't even mic'd the rotors. They just assumed based on the miles. Craziness.

-Curt
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:04 PM   #11
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The rotors are designed to wear at the same rate of the pads. If the pads are at the state required minimum of 3mm, the rotors will be at or about to go below minimum specifications. The problem with that, if you do just pads, the lips of the rotors wont allow the new pads to contact flush against the rotor surface. If you shave the pads edges to fit, the brake pedal is likely to become spongy. If you return to replace the rotors after the pads have been running on old rotors, the pads already have been grooved and will not cease to make annoying squeaks on light braking till the end of their days.


I have a good idea. If you push in on the clutch you decouple the engine from the transmission. The pedal and pulsating can happen through feedback from the pressureplate, slave cylinder then to the mastercylinder. The shifter does have direct mechanical linkage to the transmission so any vibrations will travel through it; especially considering it is hollow(more surface area to chime a vibration.)

I hope your flywheel doesn't get heat spots from the clutch assembly. But I'll let ya know what I find. I may need it a few more days if I do it on my own time. (Its nice to have Cali as your friend )
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
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The rotors are designed to wear at the same rate of the pads. If the pads are at the state required minimum of 3mm, the rotors will be at or about to go below minimum specifications. The problem with that, if you do just pads, the lips of the rotors wont allow the new pads to contact flush against the rotor surface. If you shave the pads edges to fit, the brake pedal is likely to become spongy. If you return to replace the rotors after the pads have been running on old rotors, the pads already have been grooved and will not cease to make annoying squeaks on light braking till the end of their days.


I have a good idea. If you push in on the clutch you decouple the engine from the transmission. The pedal and pulsating can happen through feedback from the pressureplate, slave cylinder then to the mastercylinder. The shifter does have direct mechanical linkage to the transmission so any vibrations will travel through it; especially considering it is hollow(more surface area to chime a vibration.)

I hope your flywheel doesn't get heat spots from the clutch assembly. But I'll let ya know what I find. I may need it a few more days if I do it on my own time. (Its nice to have Cali as your friend )
Thanks, Cali. Take the time you need. I'm not without other options.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:51 PM   #13
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I appologize ahead of time for the miles that will be put on it...




















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Old 01-11-2009, 07:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I would have never thought of the exhaust being the cause of a clutch issue. I'm impressed that the shop put the bike on the dyno to figure out what was happening. Good guys.
sounds far fetched to me but in light of the evidence you gotta say "wow"
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:10 PM   #15
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If everything oem was already replaced and it is still acting up, blame anything aftermarket.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:48 AM   #16
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I appologize ahead of time for the miles that will be put on it...


Curt, how many bad cars do you have!?!?
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:56 AM   #17
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My old CB750 resonated pipe to carbs so bad it would not pull in 3nd gear at 8k RPM's. Put my shoe on the top of the pipe to block the sound and it ran great. Ended up cutting 3 inches off the end of the pipe and that solved it. Resnanace is a cool concept. We take for granted the harmonic tuning that allows engines to make low end torque in spite of our huge lift and duration cams. People forget "tuned" means harmonically tuned, as in musically tuned..
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:57 AM   #18
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Wow I never would have believed that if the mechanic had just told me...... Thats some crazy ..... Sometimes, these bikes will do some screwy, screwy ..... I can't tell you how many weird problems I have chased through the years and figured some out, and not figured some out......never once have I thought about harmonics......
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