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Old 12-19-2005, 10:17 AM   #1
Patrick
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No CMRA Race At MSR Houston !

Announced at the CMRA B.O.D. meeting this weekend;
The CMRA will not be racing at MSR Houston this year.
An alternate date at MSR Cresson is being considered.
My understanding is MSR Houston renegged on their deal with the CMRA and was asking for a lot more money. It's a shame, I wish both sides could have worked it out.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:02 PM   #2
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I visited the track today and it was real nice from what I saw. Too bad this problem had to come about... I know there are quite a few upset racers.
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Announced at the CMRA B.O.D. meeting this weekend;
The CMRA will not be racing at MSR Houston this year.
An alternate date at MSR Cresson is being considered.
My understanding is MSR Houston renegged on their deal with the CMRA and was asking for a lot more money. It's a shame, I wish both sides could have worked it out.

Patrick

that sucks. i guess alot of those that spend $175 to ride there wont be prepping to race there afterall.
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:46 PM   #4
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the race will be one week earlier at msr cresson. same weekend as the daytona 200. guess i'll be TEVOing that one.
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Old 12-25-2005, 11:03 PM   #5
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MSR Houston did not alter it's original deal with the CMRA. All pricies are as originally stated. I think it had more to do with safety issues among other things. Hopefully there will be some sort of statement from both sides shortly to clear things up. In the mean time, speculation only makes it worse................
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley
MSR Houston did not alter it's original deal with the CMRA. All pricies are as originally stated. I think it had more to do with safety issues among other things. Hopefully there will be some sort of statement from both sides shortly to clear things up. In the mean time, speculation only makes it worse................
I agree.......
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:50 AM   #7
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I'm not speculating, and yes, I'd like to see us race there as well.


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Old 12-26-2005, 09:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley
MSR Houston did not alter it's original deal with the CMRA. All pricies are as originally stated. I think it had more to do with safety issues among other things. Hopefully there will be some sort of statement from both sides shortly to clear things up. In the mean time, speculation only makes it worse................
If it's a safety issue I just don't get it... why would they let CMRA run TWS (Texas World Speedway) with T9 and not MSRH? Seems to me it' something else... but that's me assuming, not speculating. :icon_bigg
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Old 12-26-2005, 10:02 AM   #9
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Here is an open letter the the CMRA membership from MSRH posted this morning.....

An Open Letter to the CMRA Membership,

To say that MSRH was surprised by the CMRA Board of Director’s decision to pull their race of Mar 18th and 19th would be an understatement. We had three recent verbal conversations with Norm MacDonald on Dec 12th and 13th both confirming the dates of the race and confirming the rate. In none of the three conversations was there any mention of safety concerns or lack of preparedness. However, the last conversation dealt with the CMRA’s desire that we attempt to work something out with LSTD for the Friday before the race weekend, since LSTD is the only licensing body for the CMRA. During this final conversation with Norm MacDonald it was expressed that this was a very important race to us and we would make every attempt to work something out with LSTD. There was no further communication from the CMRA until Harry Tomlinson called to pull the race without explanation on Saturday Dec 17th.

Steve McNamara at LSTD was sent an e-mail on Dec 8th outlining what we felt like our confirmed dates were, additional dates LSTD was requesting, and alternative dates. In addition to these dates a clear listing of our rate schedule, deposit policy, and a contract.

Steve McNamara called on Dec 13th to say that he and Kim Campbell had a verbal agreement for March 17th, Jun 26th, and Sept 11th. We told Steve that Kim had indicated that he had not committed to that date, but that we had sent him an e-mail 5 days previously and to look at that series of dates he had requested and assuming the package was acceptable we could compromise on Mar 17th. On the morning of Dec 14th Steve e-mailed us 6 dates (including March 17th) that LSTD would like to reserve. We e-mailed Steve back 2 hours later confirming his package of dates.

On Thursday evening at 6:48pm Steve e-mails that he cannot post the required deposit for the 6 dates, that he would just take March 17th and July 30th, because June 26th and Sept 11th no longer worked for him due to scheduling conflicts.

On this point we are a bit miffed, if there were verbal agreements between LSTD and MSRH, LSTD was now breaking 2/3s of that agreement by canceling June 26th and Sept 11th. In fact, there was an agreement in writing between LSTD and MSRH, 2/3s of which LSTD now wanted to cancel because they were unaware of the deposit policy that was clearly outlined in the original e-mail of Dec 8th and the attached contract.

In phone calls on Friday evening and Saturday morning, we related to Steve that we did not understand how he wanted MSRH to agree to March 17th (from the “original verbal agreement”), but that he could not live up to June 26th or Sept 11th. Also, that we can confirm that MSRH and LSTD had a written agreement for six dates, of which LSTD was now attempting to cancel four dates. We also stated that we would not be influenced by his subtle threats about what actions the CMRA Board of Directors might take if we did not come to an agreement prior to the their meeting later that day. We had an open track day in progress (in the rain), were preparing for PCA’s Annual Event on the following day, and had a Motorcycle School/Track Day to prepare for on the following Monday. We expressed our distress over these issues and stated that we would not be forced into making a hasty decision after two previous agreements had failed, but that we could talk at the first part of next week. We were sensitive to the issues that Steve had expressed to us in these and previous conversations and e-mails regarding his position in the CMRA, his business (LSTD), and his apparent distaste for our efforts to promote our track to motorcyclists by administering our own “track day”. We offered him the same “Level Playing Field” as we have offered to all. We are not here to put anyone out of business. On the contrary, we hope to offer ample opportunity for all.

Two hours later Harry Tomlinson called and left a message to call him. When MSRH returned his call, he simply stated that the race had been cancelled with no explanation.

Finally and most importantly, the Management of MSRH is still committed to hosting a CMRA Race in Houston and to the motorcycle community in general. We are deeply saddened that the race was cancelled, and very confused that no one at the CMRA consulted MSRH as to our point of view. We have done the best we can to provide a new venue for the racing community. CMRA representatives have been involved from the start. We have addressed any and all safety concerns as they have arisen. It is very disheartening to see our efforts go to waste over political and/or financial concerns. Admittedly, we underestimated this aspect of the business. We have risked a great deal and have made huge sacrifices to get where we are today. All we ever wanted to do is build a track that you could enjoy. We have done that. All of you have been a driving force behind our efforts. You are all welcome and wanted…Anytime.

Sincerely,

MSRH Management
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:27 AM   #10
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What's up with this thread... disappearing posts and all?
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:27 AM   #11
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posted December 26, 2005 09:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry,

I'm shocked at what you wrote here.
You were more than aware of our original agreement with Kim, as was Norm. He's not included in your organization anymore and It's rather unlikely that I "made up" the multiple conversations and trips to your facility. It was so made up that we had already put in on our 2006 LSTD schedule as well as the CMRA's?

Yes, after your GM Al Mitchell asked us to pay $16,000.00/ 30% in deposits for events that would not take place until as late as 10 months later I found that to be unacceptable and out of our financial abilities. I spoke with you during the e mails back and forth with Al and explained our relationship with the CMRA and never left any subtle threats. You merely stated these decisions were "out of your hands". I offered to pay $2500.00 more than was originally quoted by Kim for the 17th and also agreed to another Sunday or Monday date in June. I also agreed to pay the 30% deposit as required per your agreement.
You KNOW on Saturday morning before the BOD meeting that I was accepting your terms and Al wouldn't accept them!!!!!
I'll keep your personal sentiments between the two of us.

Al wanted the 17th event before the CMRA race weekend for your "in house school" to keep the profit for yourselves and still asked for twice the originally quoted price for that Friday.
That's what the CMRA would be paying for both a Saturday and Sunday. He told me on the phone that he knew the CMRA would not pull their event and I made no comment otherwise.
I walked into my exiting BOD meeting and explained the facts. The BOD voted unanimously to cancel the event. The BOD appreciates and respect the efforts put forth by our organization and it's instructors/staff for the last 5 years of CMRA involvement.
They also appreciate the fact that when someone "makes a deal" that they stick to it.
Other factors influenced their decision and those matters do not apply here in this conversation.

As far as a level playing field I think it makes perfect sense for someone in our business to be concerned when a race track takes their own motorcycle training and track days "in house".
What keeps you from booking dates within days of our pre-scheduled and paid deposit events that would ultimately lessen our chance for success?
The first dates confirmed by Kim would still be acceptable in our book but NOT ONE time were your "deposit" requirements EVER mentioned in the 5 trips I made to your facility. No other facility we have EVER done business with ask's these demands and I would have thought in your business that you would know that and make it clear during your "start up" conversations with prospective customers. Your deposit policy was included in an e mail from a person I have never talked with back on December 8th and I didn't get past the first line in the e mail when Al asked me for $10,0000.00 plus incidentals for a date that we had agreed upon for half that fee. I called Norm and he spoke with Al and everying thing was supposed to be worked out. Obviously it wasn't. I have done all I know how to do to keep this storm from occurring. All you guys had to do was accept our original agreement regarding the 17th as per Kim, or our counter offer on that Saturday before the BOD meeting. Your organization refused and here we are. I think it's a great loss to both MSR Houston, the CMRA and LSTD. I have never had so much trouble trying to do the right thing!!!!
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve O Chap
What's up with this thread... disappearing posts and all?
Sorry. I got rid of mine, because Steve's response goes directly to Jerry's letter and the issues. Don't need to say the same thing in two different ways. :icon_smil
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:26 PM   #13
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I'd like to add something;
In 5 years of dealing with the Lone Star guys both as a customer and a vendor, I've never known them to have issues with any other tracks.
They have always done what they said they were going to do when they were going to do it. They have also contributed much to this sport and the CMRA.
My 2 cents.

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Old 12-26-2005, 12:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffLSTD
Sorry. I got rid of mine, because Steve's response goes directly to Jerry's letter and the issues. Don't need to say the same thing in two different ways. :icon_smil
I read ya...

And to piggyback on what Patrick said I have had nothing but great experiences with LSTD (10 trackdays) and I will continue to be a loyal customer! :icon_bigg
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Old 12-26-2005, 05:54 PM   #15
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so who do yall think dropped the ball? MSR Houston?
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:45 PM   #16
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..a lot of verbal agreements that were broken from what I could tell...maybe my reading skills are not that great...
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
I'd like to add something;
In 5 years of dealing with the Lone Star guys both as a customer and a vendor, I've never known them to have issues with any other tracks.
They have always done what they said they were going to do when they were going to do it. They have also contributed much to this sport and the CMRA.
+1... LoneStar is a standup organization...

IMHO, MSRH should probably keep to track management instead of trying to startup a competitor amid attempts to book race weekends w/CMRA...

sounds like there's almost a "standard deal" with CMRA/LSTD events - undoubtedly because the margins are already SO narrow... & asking for hefty deposits up front can be a deciding factor b/c of scales of economy.. i.e., they have to lookout for the interests of the club...

be that as it may, (decisionmakers) the focus needs to shift now - from one of he said/she said to the 2007 season...

we all want the same same - for CMRA to race there... however msrh really needs to recognize/accept that CMRA has a formal partnership with LSTD and considerations along those lines must occur accordingly if we're to successfully include MSRH in the 07 CMRA schedule... (imho)

cmra/lstd are the customer... the onus is on msrh to accomodate the terms necessary... if i were on the board and saw msrh launching an in-house school... while i wouldn't object to it, i'd probably negotiate for some kind of non-compete agreement... again - the board has to lookout for the interests of the club... and LSTD is an integral part of the club...

I just hope all this will get sorted out over the next few months... b/c MSRH IS a great track...

Last edited by SBK Pilot; 12-26-2005 at 10:37 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:31 PM   #18
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Imagine this.

Anyone who wants to come to an LSTD event in 2006 needs to let me know all the dates you wish to attend within 7 days. I need 30% of your money in 10 days. I need the next 30% thirty days before the track day and the following 40% within 10 days of the event. There is no cancellation policy due to weather. Does that sound like a good policy?
We didn't think so.

I live in Houston and spent a ton of my time visiting with them while offering advice and never were there any indications I was WASTING my time. It obviously means nothing to the "new" GM or anyone else over there.

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Old 12-26-2005, 11:39 PM   #19
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no! That's why I like looking at the schedule and options...and rescheduling or whatever...it ain't that flexible is what I'm getting
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:34 PM   #20
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You know there are always three sides to a story, but for some reason I feel in my heart that the guys at LSTD were not to blame here. I'm really saddened that LSTD won't be hosting any events at MSR-Houston this season. Hope they can get something worked out before too long.
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