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Old 11-21-2008, 12:26 PM   #1
Grinchy
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MotoGP: The end for traction control??????

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MotoGP boss says it's time to review electronic aids

MOTOGP BOSS Carmelo Ezpeleta has said there may be a reduction of electronic riding aids in next year's MOtoGP series.
Many riders have called for a ban on the electtronic aids, as they believe it's dumbing down competition within the sport.
In an interview with Motosprint, Ezpeleta said:

"We need to get down to discuss it, as it's been done in every motor racing series. I've asked the manufacturers to look for a solution, to start talking, but we won't see anything in 2009. We'll need more time. However, regulating electronics will be the next step."

But even though the topic of electronic aids is high on Ezpeleta's list, the Dorna big-wig was firm that the championship was still a tough competiton to win:

"It must not be thought that Valentino won easily, he made incredible efforts and he won thanks to his genius. And he has shown his genius to the entire world, so this is a spectacle of the highest level. You only need to remember the Laguna Seca race...

"This was a season where Valentino's strategy counted a lot, and he won because he put Stoner under pressure. And if we add to this Pedrosa, who until mid-season was ahead, the level this year was extremely high. So the title for us has extraordinary value."
A bit contradictory but good to know that it may be on the drawing board
Lets get rid of it all inc. launch control
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:35 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
A bit contradictory but good to know that it may be on the drawing board
Lets get rid of it all inc. launch control
Agreed. Put racing skill back in the racers hands not freak'n computers.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:58 PM   #3
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Couldn't agree more. No traction control, no anti-lock brakes, no launch control.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:57 PM   #4
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Yeah, I'm completely in agreement...

They can say that it's still a 'riders race' but look at Stoner's performance this year. The first half of the year he was good, but not like he was last year. Then he gets an updated electronics package right before Laguna and suddenly he's superhero rider again... clearly the electronics are VERY important.

As much as I like the 800s, I'd like to see them go back to 500cc two-strokes... those were the days when men were men and only the best in the world could ride those bikes fast! Look at Schumacher, he's good and all but when he can lap within 4 seconds of Stoner on his run EVER on a GP bike then you know somethings up.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:53 PM   #5
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I say leave it.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:21 PM   #6
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I do miss the 500cc days where was scary to watch......

But lets not forget that not only are these electronics designed to lower lap times, they're also designed to protect the rider a little bit.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:47 PM   #7
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The TC is there for "rider safety." If the general trend is to get rid of it, just watch out for them moving to a 600cc inline 4 in 2010.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:55 PM   #8
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^^^^^^^ Nevermind. After doing some re-reading. I realize they are talking about replacing the 250 class with the 600cc in 2011. Seems I was confused.
There was some arguement about moving from the 990cc to the 800cc for rider safety, but the laptimes are still going down, thus the bikes are continuing to get faster. I will try to find that article.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:25 PM   #9
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500cc two stroke is where the spectacle is at!
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
The TC is there for "rider safety." If the general trend is to get rid of it, just watch out for them moving to a 600cc inline 4 in 2010.
I'm going to comment that the TC is more for making the tires last the entire race, than for riders safety. I believe you can find a few different articles and rider quotes about that on motogp.com or other news sites as well.

It makes sense to me, so it's my train of thought for the most part as well.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotcknstrips View Post
500cc two stroke is where the spectacle is at!
definately the most difficult to master from everything i've read
too many riders getting hurt for my liking,
the original 990's offerred the best compromise IMO
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadracerNC View Post
I do miss the 500cc days where was scary to watch......

But lets not forget that not only are these electronics designed to lower lap times, they're also designed to protect the rider a little bit.
that is the positive thing that they bring to the sport
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:16 PM   #13
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I am sure there is a balance they can find between to much and to little of the electronics.
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:21 PM   #14
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, make them push start the things
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
that is the positive thing that they bring to the sport

Indefinetely. Which makes it quite arguable that they should stay in the sport.

I think they should stay, but make the same electronics available to the satelite teams.
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:08 PM   #16
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...that would make it good old racing...would be nice to see it gone and compare after a couple years. We will see though. Usually what spectators want is no where near to what Dorna will actually do.
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:17 PM   #17
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I think the single tire rule will really bring the racing closer. The TC & electronics package is certainly a factor, but pair that up with special tires per track/rider/bike, and the huge difference between Bridgestone & Michelin, and you have the type of racing we had in 2008. I think the 2009 season will be much more spectator friendly.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:57 PM   #18
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I'll ask this. Are all electronic packages the same on MotoGp bikes? If they leave the TC and Launch Control, they should standardize it. IMHO That change, together with the standard tire rule, could make for a very competitive circumstance!
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:08 PM   #19
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Good luck policing it!Davis Technologies makes a traction control unit the size of a 9 volt battery.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerscasa View Post
I'll ask this. Are all electronic packages the same on MotoGp bikes? If they leave the TC and Launch Control, they should standardize it. IMHO That change, together with the standard tire rule, could make for a very competitive circumstance!
Quote:
MotoGP electronics insight
Electronics Industry news site, EETimes.com, has run an article on the use of electronics in MotoGP, featuring information gathered from interviews with technical personnel from three different MotoGP teams during July's US Grand Prix at Laguna Seca.

Those interviewed were EFI technician Andrea Dosoli (Kawasaki), data engineer Andrew Griffith (Yamaha) and crew chief Tom O'Kane (Suzuki). Unfortunately, there was no information for Honda and Ducati.

Here is a brief summary of the findings:

Kawasaki:

Kawasaki was using a 'half-and-half' fly-by-wire system - traditional throttle cables control half of the throttle bodies with electronic systems operating the other half. This was done to help rider feel.

Kawasaki was not yet using GPS to provide real-time location-based engine management (it is rumoured that Ducati, for example, already does) however the introduction of such a system was "fairly imminent". Location-based engine management allows the electronics to be tuned to suit each individual corner on a track.

There are about 50 sensors on the ZX-RR but the most important ones are those that measure acceleration, lean angle, front wheel speed, GPS speed and front-wheel suspension stroke.

The electronics identify a loss of rear wheel grip (potential highside) by comparing "front- and rear-wheel speeds with GPS-speed and engine rev-up".


Yamaha:

Yamaha was using a full fly-by-wire system. Throttle cables were still present, but existed only "to provide the rider [with] a conventional [throttle] feel" rather than to directly control the engine.

Yamaha used GPS for on-board data-tagging, but was also not yet using GPS to provide real-time location-based engine management, due to "the tenuous nature of GPS". However, Griffith admitted (with a smile) that the development of a position-based, real-time control system was "one possible direction" for the team.


Suzuki:

Suzuki, like Kawasaki, also uses a 'half-and-half' fly-by-wire system "to retain a conventional throttle feel and give the rider a strong sense of connection to the machine".
When discussing real-time location-based engine management, and the problem of accurately locating the motorcycle on the race track, O'Kane stated that "transponders around the track could be combined with time-distance interpolation to figure out bike location".

The ECU "counters fluctuations of the engine power curve to deliver linear and predictable response for maximum pilot confidence" but must also allow riders to get the limited amount of rear wheel sliding they need.
hope this helps
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