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Old 11-09-2008, 12:42 AM   #1
SCRC John
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CCS South Eagles Canyon Last Round

Just a heads up, I will not be attending this event. If you need Bridgestone tires or VP fuel please make arrangements ASAP...i.e. in the next few days.

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Old 11-09-2008, 04:17 PM   #2
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curious, what does one of those 5 gallons of race fuel cost nowadays?
and what are most of the guys using
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAN LADEN View Post
curious, what does one of those 5 gallons of race fuel cost nowadays?
and what are most of the guys using
Dean, i wouldn't look into using that in a stock motor, you'll just be waisting money while you're messing up a perfectly good engine.
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:47 PM   #4
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no just curious carbon....not that im using it.
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAN LADEN View Post
no just curious carbon....not that im using it.
I dont remember exact price, but for u4.2 its like 70 for a 5 gallon drum. The 4.2 is a little less harsh then u4 and it seems lots of guys are using that.
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:14 PM   #6
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Race gas hurting stock motors is a bit of a myth, unless some poor sod is running low octane race gas in a high compression motor resulting in detonation. High octane race gas in a stock motor may or may not result in performance gains, but it will help the motor run cooler.

From VP... http://www.geocities.com/vpracegasat...lquestion.html

3. You don't need race gas if you run a stock engine.
Well, you might not NEED it. But you can still benefit from running the RIGHT race fuel in your engine. Not just any old race gas. If you select the correct fuel for your type of engine, YOU will gain horsepower over pump gas. Pump gas is a very poor source of fuel for a combustion engine. Remember what pump gas is designed for: Regular ol' cars where performance is an afterthought. All it needs to do is RUN. Performance is not the primary focus with pump gas. (Pump gas can also be a dirty fuel, watery, trashy deposits floating around in there. Why do you think cars come with fuel filters?) However, performance is the NUMBER ONE focus of Race Gas. If you want more performance and a cleaner running engine, racing fuel is absolutely THE WAY to achieve that. You don't need fancy aftermarket parts, no hop-ups, no nothing to run racing fuel. That doesn't mean you cram in 112 octane to any old engine though. There's more to it than that. The secret to getting more power is not just about octane.

4. All I have to do is put higher octane fuel in my motor to get more power.
Not necessarily. You need to match-up the right octane fuel vs. your compression ratio. If you throw in too high of octane fuel in a lower compression engine, you can actually usually lose power. AND, if you put too low of octane, you can get detonation and knocking inside your engine. You can also get poor performance by running TOO high of octane. Also bad for motor-life and performance. A general rule of thumb: the higher your compression and turbo/nitrous boost, the higher octain fuel you usually need. If you run nitrous (NOS), supercharged, turbo, and many 2-stroke applications, you can usually benefit from over 100 octane fuel.

5. I can't run racing fuel in my street car/bike.
OH, not true. VP makes quite a few "street legal" fuels that are safe for street vehicles that have Oxygen (O2) sensors and catalytic converters. VP Streetblaze and VP Motorsport fuels are all unleaded fuels offering a variety of octane levels and designed for use in higher performance cars and bikes. If you have a car that you REALLY want performance out of, like a turbo car, nitrous car, Corvette, Eclipse, Integra, CRX, Mustang, Porsche, Ferrari, Mazda, Nissan, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Buick GNX, Toyota, and many others, VP makes a completely safe fuel for your street car. And if you run a GSXR1000, CBR1000, R1, R6, CBR600, VFR800, CBX, ZX14 and other streetbikes and sportbikes, VP offers a fuel that can give you more than 15% horsepower in a car over pump gas and over 7% power in a streetbike. Try that with your wasted thousands of dollars in hop-up parts!

8. What about oxygenated fuels? I can't leave the fuel in my carb/fuel system for long periods of time?
Well, with many oxy fuels like VP U2, U4, and some others, they have a high amount of oxygen (Ethanol) in the fuel. If that fuel sits in your fuel system for many days/weeks without being circulated through the system, it CAN tend to "gel" up or gum up against some parts of the fuel system. So, if you are not going to be running the engine very often (every few days), you should simply drain the carburetor or fuel system. Sounds like a big ordeal but it's just something you get used to doing. You can get excellent performance gains running oxy fuels. They are usually more expensive than non-oxy fuels but the gains are remarkable! U2 and U4 can easily give you 6% more power than pump gas.
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:17 PM   #7
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And more information from another site...

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

1. Standard Race Fuel (VP C12, C14, Sunoco 104, 100LL AvGas even high octane pump gas 96 or 100) ran straight on a stock RC51 motor will actually lose horsepower.

This is argued by many because the throttle response becomes crisper & is often mistaken for more performance when in truth the bike is making less power on the dyno sometimes by as much a 4-6hp. Many race fuels are designed for higher compression engines >13.0:1 & simply do not perform well in low compression motors like our RC51 (10.8:1). As has been noted many times on just about every sportbike forum on the net more octane does not mean more power! It simply means more resistance to detonation. If a higher octane fuel happens to make more power in a motor it is because of the additives in the fuel having the potential for more energy not just because it is higher octane.

What can be beneficial, but not always so is a blend of about 25/75 of race fuel & pump gas (1 gallon of race fuel added to 3 gallons of premium pump gas) which has been shown to consistently yield a horsepower or two. However I strongly urge you to stay away from the race fuels on a street bike if for no other reason than the extra contaminants it will leave in your motor. For me the cost of premature wear on the motor is not worth the negligible horsepower gains.

2. Oxygenated Race Fuels (Nutec #4, VP MR1 etc) can add 3-5hp without any fuel or mapping changes at all & 5-10hp sometimes even more on a stock motor with proper mapping & lots of playing around with the ignition timing. Some oxygenated fuels benefit from retarding the ignition while others benefit from advancing it.

The catch is that A. the stuff is really expensive usually about $15-$20 a gallon & B. it is highly corrosive & must be drained from your tank after each race weekend to keep it from eating parts of your fuel system. There are also many true horror stories of racers getting a bad batch of Nutek & ruining a set of carbs or throttle bodies due to a varnish that settles onto the components that is basically impossible to remove. I have actually witnessed this myself once & could not believe how bad it actually was.

There are some newer oxygenated fuels out now such as VP MR9 & Ultimate 4 which is claimed to be much less caustic to fuel system components (o-rings, gaskets etc..). I have sampled the MR9 & was very impressed with the performance & the Ultimate 4 is just plain awesome even in a stock motor, but as the cost of gas soars, $16 a gallon is pretty hard to swallow. I've been mixing it about 50/50 on my stock engines with excellent results. Not as powerful as the MR9, but nowhere near as expensive either.

3. In testing various grades of pump gas I consistently found that 87 octane fuel makes 1-2 more horsepower than those exact same bikes ran on Premium 93 octane. We tested five liter class motorcycles (97 CBR900RR, 02 Honda 919, 2000 RC51, 2000 GSXR750 & an 02 R1) & only the R1 seemed unaffected by the octane of the fuel. Now I am certainly not going to tell you to run less than the recommended octane (92) in your RC51 as the specific needs of the motor dictate that a higher octane fuel is needed, but the results are blatant in that more octane does not mean more power.

It is only fair that I note that when testing the pump gas on some of the 600's (Yamaha R6 & the GSXR600) the inverse was true in that they did lose a little horsepower on the 87 octane vs the 93 octane. Most likely because of the higher compression ratios of the smaller motors, however the CBR600F4i gained a little horsepower.

Additional notes (not tested on the dyno): Never add any type of octane boosters or fuel system cleaners to your motorcycle tank. Additives sold in auto stores are designed to treat anywhere from 16-22 gallons of fuel from one small bottle of concentrate & more often than not those chemicals are very hazardous to your motorcycles fuel system especially if the mix ratio is not absolutely perfect. I cannot tell you how many carb jobs I have done over the years because some yahoo dumped half a bottle (or more) of octane booster into his fuel tank. The bike runs great for awhile but within a day or two a varnish starts to set up on the fuel system components & it just gets worse from there. Run quality fuels & stay away from the additives period.
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Old 11-09-2008, 05:24 PM   #8
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What most people run is U4.2, it runs $75 for 5 gallons. All of my fuel is canned by VP and not pumped out of a 55 gallon drum where it has sat for months on end. U4.2 is 102 motor octane and oxygenated. Typically you will see 3-4 hp gains on a 600 with no mapping. Usually 6 hp with mapping. I have seen as much as 9 hp in a 1000cc with mapping. VP also pays contengincy in the CMRA.

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Old 11-09-2008, 09:29 PM   #9
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thanks guys
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:47 PM   #10
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good info here. didnt know RC51s had that low compression. sounds like potential to me
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