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Old 10-19-2008, 03:44 PM   #1
mike
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'03 SV650s vs. '03 CBR600RR track bike

Ok, so I'm in between decisions and would like to hear valid points against one or the other.

I currently have a 2003 SV650s as track bike with Ohlins rear shock, rebuilt front fork with Racetech internals, Rockwall bodywork and Pilot Powers. No engine or gearing mods done yet.
So far I like the bike from a handling perspective. Motorcycles Unlimited really did a great job on the suspension and so far so good BUT the lack of top end gets frustrating.
I went to TWS (Texas World Speedway) Friday and again was passed on the straights left and right by 600s and of course 1k bikes. The SV is great in corners but lacks top end.
Now the question becomes where would I get more out of. Adding 3 teeth in the rear plus a PC and airfilter (bike has an M4 slip-on) or leave it as is and go another route with a 2003 CBR600RR. I don't care for street performance as I don't ride there. This is track only. I'm 210lbs without gear. Would the Honda's stock suspension be sufficient for another year or would I have to change that out again like on the SV?

Would like to hear from people who had both bikes.


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Mike
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:00 PM   #2
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I've ridden plenty of 600RRs on the track, but never owned one. I've ridden some with stock suspension, some with modified suspension. I've raced SVs for several years now, and I just love the little bike.

For the 600, plan on the '03 being "down" on power by comparison to the '06+ 600RR. Still more power than the SV, but not much by comparison. The stock suspension on that year 600RR is very, very good. It's a nimble and agile little bike, and a novice rider will do very well with it. Certainly it's better than the stock SV suspension.

For the SV, gearing isn't going to make you any faster per se. You may gain some small amounts of time here and there, but not the kind of change you are implying.

In my opinion, there is no finer race bike than the SV650 with a built engine to make ~84 hp. That'll cost over $2k to build, but it's a 600 killer! Our endurance bike is a first gen SV, and I can run with just about any 600 in the straights and kill most of them in the corners, even at TWS (Texas World Speedway). All that said, for the money you spend on building the SV, you'll be able to buy a newer 600 with some goodies.

I literally traded my well built SV for my GSXR, and it took some time to get to "know" it. It's a different type of riding. I don't regret it, and now I'm looking to go that next step and get an '07/8 GSXR to replace my '03. I've spent as much on my suspension on my GSXR as I ever did on my SV, but to me, that's a wash 'cause it's something you almost have to do to ride at that next level.

At first I was frustrated with my GSXR because I couldn't do any better lap times on it as I could on our ~80+ hp endurance SV race bike. Now though, I'm ~3 seconds faster on my GSXR, and seem to keep knocking the times down more ever day I ride it.

If you're going to go to an i-4 600, I'd shoot for an '06+ to make it worth the trade. Otherwise, stick with the SV.

If you build the SV engine, I'd do it with a completely different engine and keep the one you have for when the built engine breaks. Either that or keep the mods to cams and head work, don't mess with the compression or bore if you want to keep it reliable.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:12 PM   #3
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According to your profile you have run 4 trackdays. I'm still a newb at this track stuff myself but I've done a heck of a lot more than that and I've owned the SV-650 so I'll comment.

You have a ton of room for growth and improvement in your riding skills. Now is not the time to worry about who or what is passing you. Work on all the basics like braking points, turn in points, throttle control, brake control, body position, etc. Speed will increase with time and experience. Don't try to buy it with a faster bike or bigger motor until your skills equal the need.

TWS (Texas World Speedway) is a fast track that is suited to the faster bikes but I have seen SV's doing a fine job of keeping up. Yes, you can gear it for more top end and lose some acceleration or you can increase corner speed and get on the throttle sooner and power out of the corners faster. Learn to do the latter and it will translate to any bike that you own or ride.

Have you ridden MSR-H or GSS? They are better suited to the stock drive train SV.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:50 PM   #4
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One thing about the 03-04 RR's is it is lacking in the low end= drive out of the corners!! Even after we re-geared our 04RR it still didn't not have the power that my 07 does!!

Never ridden an SV but that is my take on the RR's!
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:37 PM   #5
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My old '03 600RR "Woody" is for sale again I hear. Camborra motor and suspention (penske). Give Larry a call as he has been servicing it for the current owner who can no longer ride. Very strong bike with all the goodies for the track already there, probably pick it up for around 5k. 512-297- 5212.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:01 PM   #6
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I've owned a very well built 06' 600rr and currently ride a 04' SV650. Out of the two, my personal preference goes to the SV. You can get around those bigger bikes even at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on the SV. I've been just as fast (lap time) on my SV as I did on my 600rr. That being said you will need to learn alot about corner speed and trail braking to get the lap times down on the SV. Not impossible by no means.
Other things to keep in mind, tires for the 600rr are more expensive and will not last as long as the SV650 tires. Also the 600rr will drink more fuel, usually.

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Old 10-19-2008, 09:25 PM   #7
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Borrow a bike and try it out.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:31 PM   #8
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You got some good advice from some very experienced people in this thread... Most of them telling you to keep your SV. Your descision, but I would listen to Tom, Jon, Navi, and Candie. They know the dealio.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:59 AM   #9
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let me put it this way seeing as how i won the number one plate on the sv.

the sv has the capability to run within 5 seconds of any tracks lap record except for TWS (Texas World Speedway) then its 10 seconds. most novice racers cant even come close to going that fast.

keep that thing until you get down to 1:55 range. put some RACE tires on it. either the michilins or the dunlops. those will help
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator View Post
According to your profile you have run 4 trackdays. I'm still a newb at this track stuff myself but I've done a heck of a lot more than that and I've owned the SV-650 so I'll comment.

You have a ton of room for growth and improvement in your riding skills. Now is not the time to worry about who or what is passing you. Work on all the basics like braking points, turn in points, throttle control, brake control, body position, etc. Speed will increase with time and experience. Don't try to buy it with a faster bike or bigger motor until your skills equal the need.

TWS (Texas World Speedway) is a fast track that is suited to the faster bikes but I have seen SV's doing a fine job of keeping up. Yes, you can gear it for more top end and lose some acceleration or you can increase corner speed and get on the throttle sooner and power out of the corners faster. Learn to do the latter and it will translate to any bike that you own or ride.

Have you ridden MSR-H or GSS? They are better suited to the stock drive train SV.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:02 AM   #11
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I have an SV and it's completely capable track bike. So what that people pass you at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on the straight. Try to get them back in the corners. I've started off on the SV, then I needed something faster so got a GSXR 600, but then wen back to the SV and that has been my track bike for last 3 years. Sometimes I wish for something with more power, but SV is plenty for me. I went to TWS (Texas World Speedway) LSTD track day last weekend, and was surprised that there was bunch of SVs in the CMRA classes. It doesn't seem to be that popular track bike on non CMRA weekends though.

I agree with tires being cheaper and lasting longer. Also the bike itself is cheaper, and parts are readily available. IT's also cheaper to throw it away if you crash.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:29 AM   #12
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Yep, I think you should spend those 2k as Tom suggested and get the most out of that SV.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ileono918 View Post
Yep, I think you should spend those 2k as Tom suggested and get the most out of that SV.
Well, that's not exactly what I said, but it is one way to go.

As mentioned ad nauseum, there is no substitute for seat time, no matter what bike you're on.

Stick with the SV and keep your ego in check. Who cares how many folks pass you on the straight? How much skill does that take?
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:43 AM   #14
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Thanks all for your replies. Very valuable information and I truly appreciate it. From what I read is that most would keep the SV because of the racing performance you have but would like to know how many of you run an SV with the stock motor vs. a built one. I never doubted the SV overall but want to understand what would make more sense in terms of adding money to the bike. I started with a pure stock SV not doing my homework on the suspension issues and ended up with a golden shock in the rear, a complete rebuilt fork and some money less in the bank . So I want to make sure that going forward I don't make the same mistake again by not doing my homework. I could put a stronger motor in for almost 3k (Patrick has a nice one for sale right now) and would've spent almost 8k on an SV. I simply miss the I-4 pickup that I had on my YZF600r.

I do understand the learning part, no doubt but if its diluted by frustration then the fun part suffers.

So it seems unless somebody makes me a very good offer for the SV I'll keep it and try to make minor performance improvements on both the bike and rider . See y'all out there next time.

Thanks a lot.

Mike
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Stick with the SV and keep your ego in check. Who cares how many folks pass you on the straight? How much skill does that take?
I don't really care if somebody passes me on a straight and is gone. The frustration starts when I get stuck behind them in the very next corner. TWS (Texas World Speedway) seems to be very famous for that going into turn 1.

I understood your post in the right way and as I said in my previous one just want to make sure I make an informed decision rather than emotional

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Old 10-20-2008, 08:47 AM   #16
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instead of doing bike upgrades, try and ugrade yourself, trackdays, track schools will make you faster overall then a bunch of add-ons
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
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instead of doing bike upgrades, try and ugrade yourself, trackdays, track schools will make you faster overall then a bunch of add-ons
Which I do. I only ride on the track. Don't even own a street bike. I believe that alone already made me faster . No street habits creeping in on the track
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:00 AM   #18
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There are many lines through T1, there is no reason to get stuck behind anyone there. The track is more than 80 feet wide. I can see getting stuck in a few corners, but not T1.

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Old 10-20-2008, 09:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi jm View Post
There are many lines through T1, there is no reason to get stuck behind anyone there. The track is more than 80 feet wide. I can see getting stuck in a few corners, but not T1.

John
That's not what I meant so maybe I said it wrong (forgive me I'm only on my second coffee yet ). What I meant was that (from what I've seen so far in my only three times at TWS (Texas World Speedway)) there's usually a pile of bikes going in from being more stretched out on the straight.

Does that sound right? No? Ok, need more coffee ...
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:10 AM   #20
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No, your right, there is always a gaggle of bikes in T1. What kind of lap times are you running?
The faster groups (i.e. A group or Advanced) tend to not bunch up in the turns so much, but the pace is obviously faster. What I'm saying is, if your lap times are there, the faster groups would benifit you some. Maybe even intermediate or B group.

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