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Old 10-12-2008, 04:33 PM   #41
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My advice.......

1. Do a few track days and then;

2. You will realize that you were not "too hot" to begin with, or;

3. Slow down.

I was told once, that if you think you are too hot, just get off the bike and lean more (if you are not comfortable braking) because if you run off you are gonna wreck any way, may as well try to make it and risk a low side.

But what do I know? Just my VERY HUMBLE opinion.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Anything is doable. But for someone to come in here telling me I'm giving out bad advice......what can I say, they're way off base. What kind of information would you like to be out there for the masses when they find themselves in a panic situation?
1) Leave that front brake alone
or
2) To slow down when hitting a curve to hot, it's ok to use the front brake, just make sure you do this just right, but you don't want to do this, and don't forget about blah blah blah......
Which bit of information do you think is going to get someone into trouble?

So I will reiterate MY ADVICE...if you come into a curve to hot and you're already into your lean, STAY AWAY FROM THE FRONT BRAKE. If ANYONE doesn't believe me, go find yourself a curve, get into your lean, hit your front brake. Then come back here and post up the results.
You will need to modulate the front brakes as necessary, but only seat time on your own bike (along w/ experience) will allow you to feel how much or how little modulation is required.

If you're you're in too hot, you may be screwed anyway. In that case, I think it may be best to maintain a steady throttle, and lean your body to the inside (ie: hanging off), as you pull yourself out of the turn.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:36 PM   #43
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And somewhat in defese of FKNA, I still am NOT comfortable braking in corners or "trail braking". I will gently roll of the throttle some if I feel too hot. I get all my braking done prior to turn in.

Eventually, and I think it takes MUCH practice, I will feel more comfortable using the brakes, gently, while cornering.

It is the "panic" factor that makes us grab too much brake and then you are done.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
It is the "panic" factor that makes us grab too much brake and then you are done.

+1... and it can happen to many of us. I say practice emergency braking, and then when you think you got it... practice, practice, practice some more.

I remember when I used to practice this all the time, and this thread has reminded me that I haven't done so in a long, looooong time. I need to get back on the ball, and start doing that again.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:41 PM   #45
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im not even going to read through all this, i just saw were one guy said NOT to hit his front brake, thats completely wrong IMO, i use my front brake layed ALL the way over sometimes, not HARD though, to hard and it stands you up, if you drag it then you are fine.

i guess it comes with learning how to ride, yes an unexperienced person that grabs the front brake in a turn is gonna eat more than likely.

another tip.
this is why i dont hardly ride the forrest anymore, unless its just me and 1 or 2 other poeple, becuase we haul , and normally most people that ride with us cant keep up, and if they try they often go down, i hate the fact that someone wrecked becasue they were riding with us and the cause of it was us going too fast. so i hardly go up there anymore
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Are you trying to say that it's good advice to hit the front brake while in a turn, while in a lean, if you're too hot?
its a good idea to be on teh brakes approaching the corner and when you see that you are to hot, stay on them, lean in just like normal (takes alittle more force but it will lean.) and stay on them. if you dont have cheap tires you will be fine.

1. dont panic and go straight.

2. dont panic and hit the rear brake hard.

3. dont panin and grab a hand full of front brake.

follow those and you will most likely come outa the corner just fine. i see way to many people run off teh track because they THINK they are going to fast. when infact they are not, they just dont feel comfortable. if they jsut stayed on teh brake and leaned into it they would be fine.

and to flat out answer your question. YES. I hit the front brakes Full lean in a corner if i am to hot. NO I DO NOT GRAB A HANDFULL. but i do use them.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:12 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Anything is doable. But for someone to come in here telling me I'm giving out bad advice......what can I say, they're way off base. What kind of information would you like to be out there for the masses when they find themselves in a panic situation?
1) Leave that front brake alone
or
2) To slow down when hitting a curve to hot, it's ok to use the front brake, just make sure you do this just right, but you don't want to do this, and don't forget about blah blah blah......
Which bit of information do you think is going to get someone into trouble?

So I will reiterate MY ADVICE...if you come into a curve to hot and you're already into your lean, STAY AWAY FROM THE FRONT BRAKE. If ANYONE doesn't believe me, go find yourself a curve, get into your lean, hit your front brake. Then come back here and post up the results.
to each his own. come to teh track and watch me. here are some soem examples shots for you.


see my fingers. they are on the brake. i am entering a corner.
TRK 7141

and here. braking even harder as i come down the hill because i am going faster than normal. normally here i am back on the gas.
TRK 714deleted

now that i have corrected my speed (this is 5-10 feet further) i'm off the brake and on the gas.
TRK 7145
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:15 PM   #48
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take whoevers advice you want. i've been riding bikes since i was 4. 1 1 year break while i was in iraq. i ride a bike and turn better lap times than guys with loads of track time on nice set up bikes. so for some noob as street rider that thinks he knows what he is talking about to tell me i'm wrong for correcting his . COME FOLLOW ME. I dare you. you will out bike me all day and i'll toy with you until you wreck.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:18 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
OK, I did it, and it came out fine.

Results: completed the turn and road the rest of the day uneventfully.

#1, ride within reason on the streets, it's no place to "test your limits" as that's been discussed ad infinitum.

#2, on a sport bike, the most effective braking method is with the front. The rear brake is the least effective brake on the bike, and will have the tendency to lock up more quickly. These bikes are designed to brake with the front brake.

#3, if you're in a situation where you're going too fast for a corner and are in way too hot, chances are, no matter what you do, you're gonna crash or at the least run off the road.
look at that. 2 guys that konw how to ride. what do they say...

. wish i was a dumb noob trying to give someone bad advice.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:22 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
This is very poor advice. Riders of sport bikes need to learn to modulate the front brakes even at full lean. Applying gentle pressure on the front brake can help bring down the speed and prevent the bike from going wide. Even better, when challenging a turn, stay in an appropriate gear at high rpms so you can gently and quite slowly, roll off the throttle just a bit to allow the bike to turn a little sharper.
and a 3rd experienced rider saying teh same thing.



anyone saying "if you grab teh front you will fall" is like saying that if someone told you to redline it and dump teh clutch you will do a nice wheelie... and doing it. common sense says dont grab a handful of front brake. just like common sense tells you to not dump the clutch if its redlined. Learn how to ride and dont try to justify your bad advice.

not trying to be a . jsut trying to make it CLEAR that there is a right way to navigate your way through a corner that is suprisingly sharper than you thought.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:23 PM   #51
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^^^^ i'll follow you
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:23 PM   #52
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/subject. sorry to your thread. glad you made it out ok.

come out to a trackday and learn how to ride your bike right.

have a nice day.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:25 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by slowblack05 View Post
^^^^ i'll follow you
MSRH the 26th and teh 1st.

i dont know you, so if you are faster than me, i'd love to chase you. if you are slower and not telling me to not use the front brake on my sport bike. i'd love to pull you around.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:28 PM   #54
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and now that i'm not so about the "bad advice" i'll retract that statement of toying with someone until they wreck. i would not do that.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:28 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
This is very poor advice. Riders of sport bikes need to learn to modulate the front brakes even at full lean. Applying gentle pressure on the front brake can help bring down the speed and prevent the bike from going wide. Even better, when challenging a turn, stay in an appropriate gear at high rpms so you can gently and quite slowly, roll off the throttle just a bit to allow the bike to turn a little sharper.
The time to learn how to modulate the front brake is NOT when your in a lean, finding yourself in a panic situation and trying to come out of it alive. The BULL$HIT advice that you are giving out to the masses is going to get one of these poor kids killed.

I agree that a person should practice and master all the techniques out there that will make them a better rider. But for you to come in here and tell people to use their front brake if the hit a curve to hot, what do you think is going happen. People that have NEVER done it will find themselves hitting a curve to hot, get into a panic situation and attempt to use your advice by front braking in that curve....someone is going to get hurt. And it me the FK off that advice is being thrown out there that can seriously get one of this kids hurt or killed.
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:32 PM   #56
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Glad to see you are ok! I have heard their are two types of rider ones who have fallen and ones who will fall so, jus pick up your bike and keep rolling!
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
The time to learn how to modulate the front brake is NOT when your in a lean, finding yourself in a panic situation and trying to come out of it alive. The BULL$HIT advice that you are giving out to the masses is going to get one of these poor kids killed.

I agree that a person should practice and master all the techniques out there that will make them a better rider. But for you to come in here and tell people to use their front brake if the hit a curve to hot, what do you think is going happen. People that have NEVER done it will find themselves hitting a curve to hot, get into a panic situation and attempt to use your advice by front braking in that curve....someone is going to get hurt. And it me the FK off that advice is being thrown out there that can seriously get one of this kids hurt or killed.
if they are riding over their level. they know what chance they are taking.

A. They can learn how to do it RIGHT.

B. They can take poor advice and be riders, and wreck more in the future because they never learned how to do it right.

C. They can hang up their ego and start riding at their level and not worry about being to hot for a corner.

BTW. It me the FK off that advice is being thrown out there that can seriously get one of this kids hurt or killed.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #58
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You track guys are going to get someone killed. Someone that has track time under their belt should be more responsible when dishing out advice. Some of you guys that have done track is advocating the use of a front brake when in a curve when confronted with a panic situation to someone that has never used their front brake in this fashion before. Talking about IRRESPONSIBLE.

I can understand encouraging someone to practice this technique, that way when they find themselves in a bad situation they will know how to apply it. But no, that's not what y'all are doing here. Y'all are advocating using the front brake in a curve, PERIOD. Telling someone to do that in a panic situation when they have never done it before is just plain IRRESPONSIBLE.

Common Ground: I think we can all agree practice practice practice.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #59
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Sorry to hear you went down. I was in the forest today and there was a lot of loose gravel on 3090- and those turns are pretty sharp. At least it sounds like you learned a lesson from the wreck and you're going to be okay.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:24 PM   #60
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thanks TomLSTD,Clayton,Cali,Cdill35....for great sharing riding experiences and technics. i really learn all as i can at any time,every time...just to be able to control my bike, be back home the end of a trip or a ride or a track day...can i ask this : my body position include my feet on pegs always on my toes is that good ? and how do i slide my right feet forward to palm/middle so i can step on rear brakes,especialy when i in right hand turn,street riding basicly??? as i remember when i had 06 BMW R1150R with called BMW motorrad intergral ABS system,i rarely used rear brake unless i was stuck in heavy traffic or red light to red light...and now Honda will comes out with called combi abs system...
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