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Old 10-11-2008, 12:48 AM   #41
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After careful thought, I contacted a DPS associate of mine regarding this practice and asked his opinion as well. Being the DPS and all. He agreed with me that being on "private property" and demanding (not asking) for title, BOS, insurance, etc is "against the rules" without probable cause (PC).
Now, going on face value, I can assume for example MSR Houston IS a private track and property and does not have public access twenty four hours a day, etc like say the HEB parking lot. Therefore, the Police can't demand anything without a warrant or probable cause.
So, I'll ask when and where were these Officers requiring someone to show proof of ownership. On the roadway? In an open access parking lot? If not and on private property, they're violating civil rights. They may as well step into your garage on the mere hunch your car, bicycle, motorcycle, lawn mower, etc is stolen and require you show proof. I picture some German asking for your papers at the border. , this is the good ol' USA
Having said that, I don't agree in acting like a complete jack- for the sake of proving one self right. Be polite and decline. I can't promise the outcome. Or as I still say today..."You can beat the rap but, you can't beat the ride!" Again, BE POLITE. I may say, "Go Pound Sand!" but, I'm also a fellow Cop. As a civilian; I'd just suggest asking questions politely before declining should you be put in a situation as it's been described in this thread.
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:10 AM   #42
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As stated above. If the cop is respectful in the situation, then I would be as well. But if he came to be demanding to see papers and was an about it. I would be an right back. I don't agree with having to be polite to someone who is acting like an towards me without just cause, regardless of who or what they are. Like i said, its a get what you give ordeal.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
From what I have understood, the event with the Dallas PD was a bit of a witch hunt and GP bikes that didn't have 17 digit VINS were seized.
Staton
Nope, NO GP bikes were seized. I was there. A friend of mine had recently bought a motor for hil GSXR from Houston area (he was from Waco) and it turned out to be stolen. They seized the whole bike and it sat outside for a few months till they said he could go and get his bike. W/O the motor. He went and removed the motor and left it laying in the mud.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrofallout
But as stated above. I have the utmost respect for LEO's....that is unless they fill the need to act all supercop cool dude badass and be a to me when I am on private property minding my own business. At that point fck em. Respect is a give some get some thing with me, whether you are a hobo, friend, co-worker, family member, cop or the president. Could care less who they are, they don't show me respect, they can kiss my if they think they'll get any back.
And again, they're not going to give a about how you act, it's all the same, you get a trip to the pokey for acting like a fool. What's the consequence to them if you "don't get respect"? Oh yeah, that's right, NOTHING. Maybe a complaint filed and possibly a trip to the supervisor's office. Big whoop.

PB125, you should know better than to post some like "I'll tell them to pound sand". Doesn't matter if you're "fellow leo" or not, what's the fuggin' harm in showing someone proof of ownership?

Besides, if you've been a cop for 15 years, you should know that all they need to do is wait for people to leave the "private property" and tag everyone 1 by 1 as they leave.

As mentioned before, probable cause can bring them right up to the paddock, which is what happened several years ago, and has happened across the country in other instances. Doesn't make it "ok" in my book, but what I think doesn't matter. The law's pretty clear in those instances.

Moral of the story, keep your nose clean, and you've got nothing to worry about
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK View Post
Nope, NO GP bikes were seized. I was there. A friend of mine had recently bought a motor for hil GSXR from Houston area (he was from Waco) and it turned out to be stolen. They seized the whole bike and it sat outside for a few months till they said he could go and get his bike. W/O the motor. He went and removed the motor and left it laying in the mud.
OK. Thanks for the clarification. I was not there. Was it true that they did load up some bikes and basically haul them off without regard to making sure no damage was done? Your friends story about how some were stored agrees with what I heard on that side of it. Basically, out in the elements with no protection.

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Old 10-11-2008, 01:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
I am currently considering a track only bike also and there is not a clear title. I am still being told by people I trust to wait and get a track bike with a clear title. I still haven't decided what I am going to do yet.
I looked for a while before I found a track bike that had a clear title.
I wanted to be sure I got a title just for this reason. It's mine, I can prove it, no question.

If you get someone else's race bike (that's what I did) and there is no title, then you are taking a chance and everyone on here knows it. Argue all you want about BOS being just as good, but the bottom line is a title is PROOF of ownership, a BOS is EVIDENCE of ownership. That can be an important difference.

I found my bike on www.CMRAracing.com
Go to MBoard then for sale/wanted.

This time of year a lot of racers start selling off their bikes to get ready for next season. Often deals can be had on bikes that already have all the sweet mods, like rearsets, suspension work, exhausts, etc.

BTW I had my scoot titled "Off Road ONLY" Then I didn't have to pay the presumptive tax (which is a road use tax) saved me several hunnerd dollars.
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:22 PM   #47
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Good info, thanks. I have been watching the CMRA board as I agree it's a good time of year to look.

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Old 10-11-2008, 05:20 PM   #48
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And again, they're not going to give a about how you act, it's all the same, you get a trip to the pokey for acting like a fool. What's the consequence to them if you "don't get respect"? Oh yeah, that's right, NOTHING. Maybe a complaint filed and possibly a trip to the supervisor's office. Big whoop.

Quote:
PB125, you should know better than to post some like "I'll tell them to pound sand". Doesn't matter if you're "fellow leo" or not, what's the fuggin' harm in showing someone proof of ownership?

Besides, if you've been a cop for 15 years, you should know that all they need to do is wait for people to leave the "private property" and tag everyone 1 by 1 as they leave.

As mentioned before, probable cause can bring them right up to the paddock, which is what happened several years ago, and has happened across the country in other instances. Doesn't make it "ok" in my book, but what I think doesn't matter. The law's pretty clear in those instances.

Moral of the story, keep your nose clean, and you've got nothing to worry about
Tom,
I completely agree and you're right; hence my last post. I'm crawfishing x10 here and attempting to clarify my previous statement. My testicles got in the way of my judgement. So, I am in no way advocating acting like a complete idiot to ANY LEO. As I stated above, BE POLITE. My question is...At what point is the property "private"? I remember having to check in at the gate....and/or office. Again, I assume the parking area has restricted access and is not open 24 hours a day. Therefore it's private property and LEO would need PC or a warrant to seize anything. If the VIN is clean and you're able to prove who you are, there should be no PC to seize any vehicle.
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:05 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
And again, they're not going to give a about how you act, it's all the same, you get a trip to the pokey for acting like a fool. What's the consequence to them if you "don't get respect"? Oh yeah, that's right, NOTHING. Maybe a complaint filed and possibly a trip to the supervisor's office. Big whoop.
And they are going to arrest me for what? My not stolen bike?

Last time I checked. Not being respectful is not a crime.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK View Post
Nope, NO GP bikes were seized. I was there. A friend of mine had recently bought a motor for hil GSXR from Houston area (he was from Waco) and it turned out to be stolen. They seized the whole bike and it sat outside for a few months till they said he could go and get his bike. W/O the motor. He went and removed the motor and left it laying in the mud.
I've looked for the message string about this and I think it's too old bring from archive but I'm setting at the track where it happened as we speak and I heard it was a long weekend for some innocent people. I've had a bike stolen and I hate thieves but I think that they targeted the wrong group of people (racers) .
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:17 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB125 View Post

Tom,
I completely agree and you're right; hence my last post. I'm crawfishing x10 here and attempting to clarify my previous statement. My testicles got in the way of my judgement. So, I am in no way advocating acting like a complete idiot to ANY LEO. As I stated above, BE POLITE. My question is...At what point is the property "private"? I remember having to check in at the gate....and/or office. Again, I assume the parking area has restricted access and is not open 24 hours a day. Therefore it's private property and LEO would need PC or a warrant to seize anything. If the VIN is clean and you're able to prove who you are, there should be no PC to seize any vehicle.
Fair enough, I hear you there.

Good advice

Regarding the private property thing, PC (probable cause) is the way they get in and do their thing. In the case of the CRRC "sting" years ago, it was from a tip. The persons who were the main cause of the PC were (if I recall correctly) actually guilty of dealing with stolen parts. A bunch of the racers were casualties of this not knowing they were buying stolen parts. Everybody lost in that case.

Yall can do your own research, it's happened all over the Country before at track days and races.

I agree with Aaron, I think they're targeting the wrong people- unfortunately, they're also targeting the "right" people too

Quote:
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And they are going to arrest me for what? My not stolen bike?

Last time I checked. Not being respectful is not a crime.
There's all kinds of things they can arrest you for, and your "not stolen bike" doesn't have to be the reason.

However, if you think you're smarter than they are and think you can get away by being a to a cop who is coming in to a situation where he already has some preconceived notions on some improprieties; more power to ya. Good luck with all that.

Regarding the BOS comment, you can still get an "off road" title from the BOS, and if anyone is worried about a BOS being good enough, go and get the title for your bike with it.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:45 AM   #52
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Quote:
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And they are going to arrest me for what? My not stolen bike? Last time I checked. Not being respectful is not a crime.
LOL! Dude, how old are you? 10?

Not being respectful might not be a crime, but offering up respect is the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That few heed this anymore, it seems, is one of the fundamental flaws of today's society.

Authority figures deserve respect in the course of their jobs, even in instances where they are wrong. Next time you disagree with your boss, I suggest you make a big scene and tell him/her to cram it up their because you demand respect. Even if you're right, I'll bet you're out on your .
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:47 AM   #53
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The show "Cops" is full of folks "demanding" respect from LEO's. Maybe Pyro is trying to break in to TV?
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
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I've looked for the message string about this and I think it's too old bring from archive but I'm setting at the track where it happened as we speak and I heard it was a long weekend for some innocent people. I've had a bike stolen and I hate thieves but I think that they targeted the wrong group of people (racers) .
Yea, it happened before we had a BBS.
Well, we might have been using the 1st incarnation, but it was primitive.
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:31 AM   #55
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Somewhere I have the RRW issue and the CMRA newsletter that covers this incident. Sorry, I'm not going to go hunting for them, so if you really want to read a little about the Oak Hill raid, maybe you should contact John Ulrich at RRW for the archived article.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:11 PM   #56
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LOL! Dude, how old are you? 10?

Not being respectful might not be a crime, but offering up respect is the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That few heed this anymore, it seems, is one of the fundamental flaws of today's society.

Authority figures deserve respect in the course of their jobs, even in instances where they are wrong. Next time you disagree with your boss, I suggest you make a big scene and tell him/her to cram it up their because you demand respect. Even if you're right, I'll bet you're out on your .
Yep. I am 10. Good observation. Not sure how many times I have to say it again but as stated, if a cop is an intentionally to me when I have done nothing wrong, you can bank I will be a cocky smart right back. If I am on private property and have committed no crime, there isn't he can do about it. If the cop is polite and courteous, I will extend the same to him/her. As stated over and over and over again in this thread (read much?) I have no issues with any LEO's. The argument was simply based on the fact that several people in this thread indicated that one is required to show respect to an officer, even if he is acting like a towards someone who has committed no crime and is on private property, that I am required to still be polite and courteous. I simply stated, that logic is bullshit. If you do not agree, good for you.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:23 PM   #57
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(read much?)
Yep. All the time. Oh, wait. You mean read MH? Not really, no. I have a lot better things to do than to spend my life on MH.

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if a cop is an intentionally to me when I have done nothing wrong, you can bank I will be a cocky smart right back.
And as I (and others) have stated here multiple times before (listen much?): NOOB!
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:56 AM   #58
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Yep. All the time. Oh, wait. You mean read MH? Not really, no. I have a lot better things to do than to spend my life on MH.



And as I (and others) have stated here multiple times before (listen much?): NOOB!
. Wish I could spend my left on the interwebs too. Noob? I think not. Hope your ego is OK though, I know your working hard to satisfy it.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:50 AM   #59
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Tell the officer politely that he has NO Legal Right to ask for your title on PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! Now keep in mind that this does not mean he won't wait for you to leave but as far as the legality of it, just walk off... There is no reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed so therefore he can't ask you to see the title... Well he can ask you for the title simply as a regular person can ask you for the title but you also have the right to walk off... Remember, this is on private property and BE POLITE... dont let you EGO write a check you Bank Account cant write...
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:54 PM   #60
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Tell the officer politely that he has NO Legal Right to ask for your title on PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! Now keep in mind that this does not mean he won't wait for you to leave but as far as the legality of it, just walk off... There is no reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed so therefore he can't ask you to see the title... Well he can ask you for the title simply as a regular person can ask you for the title but you also have the right to walk off... Remember, this is on private property and BE POLITE... dont let you EGO write a check you Bank Account cant write...
Guys, come on, why not just show them the proof? What's the friggin' harm in showing proof?????

This is ridiculous, if you're not doing anything wrong, why not just comply with the request?

You tell them even politely "no" in any form, and they will just wait for you outside the gates, problem solved on their end, and yours will just be beginning.

Jeez.
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