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Old 09-16-2008, 04:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerbill View Post
I don't know about that. I have seen some weird stuff in c group. I mean its like some people don't even know how to ride much less be on a track. When I was helping Buck at one of his trackday I saw some newbie guy going towards turn one and I thought to myself when is he going to turn. I waited and watched and the sucker didn't even try to turn before he hit the outside of the track. I had to just shake my head on that one.

I am not saying that alll people in c ride like that but you have some that don't ride very good at all.

Hopefully in B there is a little more experience than in the c group.

I've definetily seen some dumb myself. My first day at TWS (Texas World Speedway) someone ran off during the parade lap! That being said, for me personally, someone running off doesn't throw me off my ride. Seeing someone highside/lowside in front of me does. Always makes me wonder if there's something on the track I don't know about, and I'll end up either going way too slow through that turn and/or getting OFF the race line to avoid not hitting the imaginary spill
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:36 PM   #22
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Yea, I guess crashing happens in all the groups. But one thing that bothers me is TRAFFIC. I mean you can get around one or two but if there is a bottleneck of 7 it is hard to get around that many. I much rather have people pass me than slower people holding me up. I just want people that know how to hold a line.
the bottle neck is especially frustrating on the sv when some of those are R6s 600RRs and Gixxers and they drag race down the straights and then slow WAY down again for next turn
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #24
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [poser] View Post
the bottle neck is especially frustrating on the sv when some of those are R6s 600RRs and Gixxers and they drag race down the straights and then slow WAY down again for next turn
Yea, I've seen worse. I've been behind a ZX14 that was taking AMAZINGLY wide lines through every turn that made him near impossible to pass, and then putting the hammer down on the straight.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:06 PM   #26
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This is how most people wrecked out, following fast guys. They are fast because they know what they are doing. There is no subtitute for seat time, seat time, seat time.
you are correct, but some level of good judgement has to be exercised by the rider. obviously a newer track rider cant try to hang with the fastest guys, but can surely find one that matches closely.

his best bet is to snag an instructor and have him or her tow him around.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:08 PM   #27
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With Ride Smart, when you sign up, just tell an instructor you want to move up to level 2 and want his opinion. He will ride behind you and will let you know about your technique and pace. We have always done it this way.
Ask Guy, or one of the instructors in lev 1 that have been there for a while and they will be happy to provide input.


In addition here is my opinion on this:

Each level has a range, and often the ranges overlap. If your riding ability falls on the extreme low end of, lets say intermediate group, I would recommend you stay in novice group and get more comfortable with the track and the track environment.
I would not use passing in straights as any gauge for moving up/down in groups.

If you find that you are one of the top fastest 10-15% of people in a riding level, and you have appropriate technique to complement the speed, I say go for it. If you are fast and you can't hold the line, and ride unpredictably, I say stay and work on the line. Erratic riders make themselves hard to pass because the person trying to pass them cannot trust where they are going to be and what they are going to be doing while being passed. High potential of danger especially in higher speed groups.

If your technique is good, and you have good speed, you will find that when you move up, the track opens up much more. It is much better to be a slower rider in one level, than the fastest rider in another level, since when you are slower, you do not have to worry about being stuck behind someone.
What I just said has its boundaries, explained above the statement though, so it should not be used blindly.

It will be hard to stop one from registering for another level, so if you are confident in your abilities in the intermediate group, go for it. If you are holding everyone else up, the cw people will just black flag you and you will be dropped to a lower level. Thats all.

Good luck with your choice.


P.S. I do not believe one can get 'sucked' into any corners by faster riders. I believe they get 'suckered' into a corner by faster riders because they are too cocky about their skills and stop processing incoming track information rationally. If you leave your ego at the entrance to the track, you will learn more and will have more fun. Approach it as a training session rather than how fast can I go session and you will enjoy it tremendously.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Richards View Post
Just try it! They will let you move back to Novice in the middle of the day of you want to. I wouldn't rely on the instructors because sometimes they will just ask you how many track days you have done and then base their decision on that. You can always try intermediate the first half of the day so that you don't get stuck with the "no passing rule" and then go back to novice in the afternoon when they allow you to pass and everyone is getting faster.
My last track day I was in intermediate. An instructor tried to convince me to go Novice because I mentioned I had never ridden MSRH clockwise. Instead, I just asked an instructor to go out the first session and teach me the lines in intermediate. After that, I learned by following some of the other good riders around the track. My lap time went from 2:01 to 1:52 by the end of the day. I know that would not have happened if I had jumped back to Novice just because I had never ridden the track clockwise before. Just stay within your limits and don't let some of those really fast guys suck you into a corner above your head.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:10 PM   #28
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...amen bruda..well said


Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerbill View Post
... I much rather have people pass me than slower people holding me up. I just want people that know how to hold a line.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:50 PM   #29
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Concur with Romeo36. Ride in the faster group. You'll learn more and you'll do it from people who don't have a lot of bad track habits like the slowest group. More advanced groups don't mean just the ability to navigate the track quicker, it means being able to co-exist with slower traffic with skill and safety, too.
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:03 PM   #30
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So wait.....I've never ridden with Ride Smart. They don't allow passing AT ALL in the novice group?
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaka View Post
P.S. I do not believe one can get 'sucked' into any corners by faster riders. I believe they get 'suckered' into a corner by faster riders because they are too cocky about their skills and stop processing incoming track information rationally.
I pretty much meant that. Some times they are watching the people in front of them and basing their braking points and turn in speeds on them, or the feeling: "hey he went that fast and didn't fall so I should be able to do it, too".
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:52 PM   #32
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let me put it this way:

ive raced an sv for 5 years, and when it comes to riding them, lets just say i know what the im doing. am i the fastest? no! can i ride the ever living out of an sv? YES. can i go faster and ride better than the majority of the 600s 750s and 1ks? YES! now do you think that skill and speed came from riding with slower people, or new people to the track? no

the c group is for newer riders to help get them to relax, breathe, and be smooth. if you feel that you have those three things covered, and dont mind a little more passing, then move up and continue to learn and become a better more skilled rider. just because you move up doesnt mean that you cant ask or be helped. i know any lstd instructor would be happy to help you if you ask

if your worried about being to slow for a group, dont be. just remember it is always the responsibility of the passer to make a clean and safe pass.


now from my experience on an sv. riding in the faster group will allow you to go faster because you wont have as many people parking in the corners, you still have the occassional few, but i am positive that they are no there to be in the way, they are there to learn just like everyone else
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:15 PM   #33
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Passing rules differ in different groups. As with all other schools, they are different due to the disparity in riding skills.
There are different levels of allowance when this is done.
Passing is allowed in novice group, however on the outside only.
Of course, in the straights you can pass on any side.
In intermediate, passing allowed on outside, with additional rules being relaxed depending on the rider group and the track conditions.
In the advanced group, go ahead and pass all you want, anywhere you want.

If you have any questions at all, please let us know. We will be glad to help out.





Quote:
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So wait.....I've never ridden with Ride Smart. They don't allow passing AT ALL in the novice group?
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerran V View Post
You will get much better/smoother/faster by following faster people. Also, passing others and getting passed can seem intimidating at first (it did for me), but it's no big deal. You'll learn how to do it quickly. The first few times I thought about signing up for advanced, I was worried that I wouldn't be fast enough, or that the close passing would screw me up...it won't. Be smooth and keep your lines. The faster guys will find their way around you.
Couldn't agree more. Plus when you follow fast guys you can pick up on a few good lines as well
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P.S. I do not believe one can get 'sucked' into any corners by faster riders. I believe they get 'suckered' into a corner by faster riders because they are too cocky about their skills and stop processing incoming track information rationally.
I AGREE COMPLETELY!

Quote:
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But one thing that bothers me is TRAFFIC. I mean you can get around one or two but if there is a bottleneck of 7 it is hard to get around that many.
I hear you but that is what hot pit is for. Sucks to have to take some time away from the session but I just suck it up and move on.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:36 AM   #35
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smooth and comfortable, that's what i'm all about
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:28 AM   #36
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No matter what group you're in it's amazing when you realize how
much you coast each lap. Ideally you're either on the gas or on the
brakes, there is no coasting. For instance at TWS (Texas World Speedway) going up the hill
after turn 7. Picture a lap of your favorite track in your head and you'll
be amazed when you realize how much you coast. Talk about an easy
way to shave seconds off of your best lap time.
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
So wait.....I've never ridden with Ride Smart. They don't allow passing AT ALL in the novice group?
I will add to what Ciaka said about RideSmart's passing rules.

Level 1 (Novice), after the 1st round-robin session we allow passing on the straights only. Then, the general rule is after lunch we will start allowing passing on the outside of a turn. However, sometimes we will adjust that and allow it before lunch if it seems the group can handle it. We have also had it go the other way where we didn't allow passing on the outside of a corner all day long because that was what was best for that group that particular day.

Level 2, after 1st round-robin session, we allow passing on the straights and passing on the outside. Occaisionally, the instructors might limit outside passing for a session or two based on track conditions, or some other variable. But, those are the general rules.

Passing on the inside of a corner is never legal in either group. Only allowed in level 3/4.

What's funny about the whole "passing on the outside" thing is that it's rarely a place where people pass. It's not a good place to pass. You never know if the person you're passing might run wide and push you in the dirt/grass/mud...
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:56 AM   #38
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:51 AM   #39
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:00 AM   #40
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Quote:
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I will add to what Ciaka said about RideSmart's passing rules.

Level 1 (Novice), after the 1st round-robin session we allow passing on the straights only. Then, the general rule is after lunch we will start allowing passing on the outside of a turn. However, sometimes we will adjust that and allow it before lunch if it seems the group can handle it. We have also had it go the other way where we didn't allow passing on the outside of a corner all day long because that was what was best for that group that particular day.

Level 2, after 1st round-robin session, we allow passing on the straights and passing on the outside. Occaisionally, the instructors might limit outside passing for a session or two based on track conditions, or some other variable. But, those are the general rules.

Passing on the inside of a corner is never legal in either group. Only allowed in level 3/4.

What's funny about the whole "passing on the outside" thing is that it's rarely a place where people pass. It's not a good place to pass. You never know if the person you're passing might run wide and push you in the dirt/grass/mud...
Would it be safe to to say this is more likely in level 1 than 2? And that same scenario almost pushed me into the dirt at wheelie hill my last track day
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