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Old 09-16-2008, 01:41 PM   #1
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is it better to be one of the fast guys, or one of the slow guys?

Ok, this is going to sound like a n00b question, or me tooting my own horn, but I really am wondering.
When do you move to level 2 at track days?

I've only done 2 track days, but both days I was passing guys in the turns on "faster" bikes. Being on the SV I have a hard time passing on the straights unless I just get the jump on someone at corner exit.

Would it be better for me to be one of the slower guys in level 2? Or should I stay back and let the instructors make that call and hopefully I won't get too frustrated not being able to pass in the turns or getting stuck behind slower traffic?
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:53 PM   #2
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its fun being the fast guy but if your the slow guy in the fast group you will learn a lot more by following the faster bikes
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:55 PM   #3
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I would say it's better to be the faster guy @ your level instead of being the slower guy and being in over your head.....but I haven't used my free track day yet so that is just my $.02
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:07 PM   #4
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I like to be the slower guys. If you can keep up the pace the whole session, then move up. If you are having problem of being consistence then stay at the lower level. I like riding in level4 because of the passing but there are times, I don't feel like hauling all the time, I moved myself down and have more fun passing the slower one. It's about having fun.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:18 PM   #5
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ALWAYS ride at your own pace.

That said, Level5 has the right idea.
As the great philosopher BumbleBee once said, "If you're having fun, then you're doing it right".

Try moving up a level and see how that feels. Ask an instructor, he could give you some advice and maybe watch how you do. Truth be told there are often some guys in the middle group that should be riding in Novice. (I might be one)
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #6
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Interesting question. Although, like anybody I don't like seeing people whiz around me(hurts the ole ego) , I hate being held up worse. And in your situation I would hate being help up in C group because they have such strict passing rules and on SV you are real limited with passing on the straight. In you situation I think I would go to being a slower guy in B group. And don't think you are going to be the slowest there is alot of guys in B that shouldn't be in B. So you won't be the slowest and you won't get held up with a bunch of slow traffic which doesn't help your skill level at all other than learning to do dealing with fustration.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:24 PM   #7
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the problem i have encounterd B4 was that level 2 was often filled with peeps who just refused instruction.thought they knew more than they did and wound up crashing someone else out .......
at least most in level 1 recognise they are still learning .
my $.02
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
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the problem i have encounterd B4 was that level 2 was often filled with peeps who just refused instruction.thought they knew more than they did and wound up crashing someone else out .......
at least most in level 1 recognise they are still learning .
my $.02
Maybe because they got tired of listening to the same old thing over and over again every trackday?
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:48 PM   #9
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part of the reason I would like to try level 2 is to hear that instruction as well.
I feel like I have a good grasp of lines and stuff and stay pretty consistent with my lines and even have a few good ones. where I know i need more instruction is body position, and I've been told Ride Smart (my next track day) deals more with body position in level 2 instruction.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:49 PM   #10
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Just try it! They will let you move back to Novice in the middle of the day of you want to. I wouldn't rely on the instructors because sometimes they will just ask you how many track days you have done and then base their decision on that. You can always try intermediate the first half of the day so that you don't get stuck with the "no passing rule" and then go back to novice in the afternoon when they allow you to pass and everyone is getting faster.
My last track day I was in intermediate. An instructor tried to convince me to go Novice because I mentioned I had never ridden MSRH clockwise. Instead, I just asked an instructor to go out the first session and teach me the lines in intermediate. After that, I learned by following some of the other good riders around the track. My lap time went from 2:01 to 1:52 by the end of the day. I know that would not have happened if I had jumped back to Novice just because I had never ridden the track clockwise before. Just stay within your limits and don't let some of those really fast guys suck you into a corner above your head.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:50 PM   #11
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Great topic.

I too have done a couple of noob days and while the afternoon sessions are great I feel like I miss out on a lot of good track time in the morning sessions when we are doing the "around the track in third gear" and other useful but boring instruction.

Maybe a novice day that was all out track. There is a difference between a track noob and a someone who has been on the track a few times.

I sometimes feel like I should move up to the intermediate group too because I know I can smoke a few of them on the streets (you know who you are) But since I don't ride the streets any more the track is where its at for me. Besides I love the feel of the afternoon novice sessions when it is kind of a free for all and I can practice lines and smoothing out the throttle and such. I would benefit more from that in the morning session than from the regular routine. My 2 cents.
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:13 PM   #12
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As mentioned above have an instructor follow you around and see what they think. Level 2/b group/intemediate level is IMO the most dangerous group as you have novices moving for their first time, seasoned intermediate group riders that run that group b/c they like to be the fast guys and or practice passsing and everything in between both of these parties...

FYI run that SV it has plenty to hang in A-group/advanced/ and lvl 3/4
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:50 PM   #13
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B group for sure...I've done about a dozen track days so far and I've never seen somebody crash someone else out, run off the track, sure (just stand it up and ride it out, no biggie) but never crash them out. If you're thinking it's time for B, then it is. You will get much better/smoother/faster by following faster people. Also, passing others and getting passed can seem intimidating at first (it did for me), but it's no big deal. You'll learn how to do it quickly. The first few times I thought about signing up for advanced, I was worried that I wouldn't be fast enough, or that the close passing would screw me up...it won't. Be smooth and keep your lines. The faster guys will find their way around you.
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:58 PM   #14
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I, personally would stay in the lower group until you're asked to move up. I made the same leap you're suggesting, and I'm probably going to move back down at my next track day for one main reason: B group (in an A, B, C setup) always has the most crashes. This is because both A and C group riders know their pace. Its the B group guys who tend to attempt to push beyond their skill, and go down. When people crash in front of me I'm always timid at that turn the rest of the day. On a "bad" day.....that could theoreticaly make me timid on half the track!
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:04 PM   #15
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i am with Romeo and Jerran on this. you will learn a lot by following the fast guys. that SV will do just fine in any group.

as for our novice group, if you already have a few track days, and still want to ride novice, but dont want the classroom instruction, we will put you with an instructor and let you work on whatever you like
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:05 PM   #16
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I've never done a novice group...not even my first. If you know how to ride and have moderate bike control, you'll be fine
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I, personally would stay in the lower group until you're asked to move up. I made the same leap you're suggesting, and I'm probably going to move back down at my next track day for one main reason: B group (in an A, B, C setup) always has the most crashes. This is because both A and C group riders know their pace. Its the B group guys who tend to attempt to push beyond their skill, and go down. When people crash in front of me I'm always timid at that turn the rest of the day. On a "bad" day.....that could theoreticaly make me timid on half the track!
I don't know about that. I have seen some weird stuff in c group. I mean its like some people don't even know how to ride much less be on a track. When I was helping Buck at one of his trackday I saw some newbie guy going towards turn one and I thought to myself when is he going to turn. I waited and watched and the sucker didn't even try to turn before he hit the outside of the track. I had to just shake my head on that one.

I am not saying that alll people in c ride like that but you have some that don't ride very good at all.

Hopefully in B there is a little more experience than in the c group.
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:12 PM   #18
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i am with Romeo and Jerran on this. you will learn a lot by following the fast guys. that SV will do just fine in any group.

as for our novice group, if you already have a few track days, and still want to ride novice, but dont want the classroom instruction, we will put you with an instructor and let you work on whatever you like

This is how most people wrecked out, following fast guys. They are fast because they know what they are doing. There is no subtitute for seat time, seat time, seat time.
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:14 PM   #19
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I don't know about that. I have seen some weird stuff in c group. I mean its like some people don't even know how to ride much less be on a track. When I was helping Buck at one of his trackday I saw some newbie guy going towards turn one and I thought to myself when is he going to turn. I waited and watched and the sucker didn't even try to turn before he hit the outside of the track. I had to just shake my head on that one.

I am not saying that alll people in c ride like that but you have some that don't ride very good at all.

Hopefully in B there is a little more experience than in the c group.
Hey, give me a break. It was my first trackday and I froze at the turns.
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Hey, give me a break. It was my first trackday and I froze at the turns.
Ok but just this once.
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