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View Poll Results: Which is more beneficial overall to a rider?
Advanced MSF Course 12 22.22%
Track Day 42 77.78%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-09-2008, 04:38 PM   #21
Rallo
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I think both classes will help in understanding your bike and being aware of your environment. I would think the MSF will give you skills on handling your bike around everyday obstacles while the track day allows the opportunity to see how close to the edge you can take your bike. So both similar but very different I guess....but what do I know. Best to just disregard this post.

I would prefer the track day before taking the advanced course but I guess doing both is ideal.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:39 PM   #22
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It all depends on how you spend most of you riding time and what your current comfort level is.

The advanced MSF course is still in a parking lot maxing out at about 30 mph. But it does focus on scanning, planning ahead, swerving, maximum braking, and basic cornering technique. It is especially good for someone who commutes in traffic.

A good trackday or advanced riding school will focus on controlling your motorcycle at higher speeds from 30mph to WFO. But the basic techniques still apply. Trackdays are usually more fun. More of a rush.

Both are worthwhile depending on what you are looking for. I probably have over 20,000 miles on various race tracks. While I have learned to out brake the competition during races, I have never used that skill at my highest level at a track day or come to a complete emergancy stop on the track. (Ok, one 130mph stoppie )

Also many people slow down on the street and/or ride with more personal reserve after attending several trackdays.

Go to a LoneStarTrackDays event and learn from one of their three MSF trained instructors who just happen to love to ride above 30mph also.

The goal should always be to ride better with more control no matter what type of class you are taking.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htownz View Post
My trip out to the twisted sisters in Hill Country made me feel like I was missing out big-time I actually felt free for a while.
Twisted sisters? I went up there labor day weekend and they told me it was called Devils backbone. But i digress.

I think I would spend my money on a track day before i go to MSF Advance. I think both would teach me control of the bike (at different speeds).
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphin View Post
msf will teach you how to stay safe on the street, track will teach you how to use the abilty of the bike to go fast. you dont want to try and carry over what you learn on the track to the street because the street isnt a place to try and drag knee.
Ha ha ha ha.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
Edit: There is no substitute for seat time.
Best answer I have seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
They are. I just prefer mine with a crash truck, an ambulance waiting, and no oncoming traffic
straight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthHoustonCBR View Post
Track day for sure....after riding the streets for several years doing one track day changed my opinion completely. My bike is now strictly track. I highly suggest it. PLus you'll meet just as many people at the track as you would a m&g.
Just come on out and you will see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Porter View Post
It all depends on how you spend most of you riding time and what your current comfort level is.

The advanced MSF course is still in a parking lot maxing out at about 30 mph. But it does focus on scanning, planning ahead, swerving, maximum braking, and basic cornering technique. It is especially good for someone who commutes in traffic.

A good trackday or advanced riding school will focus on controlling your motorcycle at higher speeds from 30mph to WFO. But the basic techniques still apply. Trackdays are usually more fun. More of a rush.

Both are worthwhile depending on what you are looking for. I probably have over 20,000 miles on various race tracks. While I have learned to out brake the competition during races, I have never used that skill at my highest level at a track day or come to a complete emergancy stop on the track. (Ok, one 130mph stoppie )

Also many people slow down on the street and/or ride with more personal reserve after attending several trackdays.

Go to a LoneStarTrackDays event and learn from one of their three MSF trained instructors who just happen to love to ride above 30mph also.

The goal should always be to ride better with more control no matter what type of class you are taking.
Well said Stephen... good job!
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Porter View Post
It all depends on how you spend most of you riding time and what your current comfort level is.

The advanced MSF course is still in a parking lot maxing out at about 30 mph. But it does focus on scanning, planning ahead, swerving, maximum braking, and basic cornering technique. It is especially good for someone who commutes in traffic.

A good trackday or advanced riding school will focus on controlling your motorcycle at higher speeds from 30mph to WFO. But the basic techniques still apply. Trackdays are usually more fun. More of a rush.

Both are worthwhile depending on what you are looking for. I probably have over 20,000 miles on various race tracks. While I have learned to out brake the competition during races, I have never used that skill at my highest level at a track day or come to a complete emergancy stop on the track. (Ok, one 130mph stoppie )

Also many people slow down on the street and/or ride with more personal reserve after attending several trackdays.

Go to a LoneStarTrackDays event and learn from one of their three MSF trained instructors who just happen to love to ride above 30mph also.

The goal should always be to ride better with more control no matter what type of class you are taking.
Great advice right here.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphin View Post
trust me after a trackday the street will suck..

i too use to ride the street all the time, and at a good pace.. but after doing a trackday i realized what i was doing on the street, speed wise was a freaking JOKE compared to the speed and thrill of ripping the throttle on the track.

just something about going all the way up to 6th gear with the throttle pinned and coming down into turn one at TWS (Texas World Speedway) that the street just cant match, because if you got caught going those speeds on the street, your going to jail!

plus at the track that section of the track your riding at that moment is yours so you can completly forget about whos coming up behind me, am i going to hit a car around this turn, can i make it another 3-4 miles at this speed without a ticket. you get to take your mirrors off and you own the track pretty much, if their are faster people behind you they will find a way around of course in a safe fashion. you just cant beat that on the street with cars trying to run you over from not paying attention to cops trying to give you tickets and jail time.

the joy of riding the streets for me is dead, minus if me and a few close friends go on a relaxing ride somewhere i get a kick out of hanging with the crew not so much the ride.
+1

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Old 09-10-2008, 12:14 AM   #28
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Advance MSF and attend trackdays are a must for any motorcyclist. MSF is about slow manuveur and safety awareness. If you are riding on the street and you need to make a u turn or any other manuveur, at least you know how to handle and control the bike. If you are coming up on an uneven lane, do you know how to come across that? If you were coming into a turn, do you know what's there waiting for you? This is what MSF teaches. Now, track riding is about high speed manuveur or control that MSF will never teach. Everyone on here speed but if you don't know how to negotiate a corner, you will go off roading and on the street off roading is no fun, I guaranteed it( George Zimmerman voice). Other than cornering and braking, track riding on the street will get you killed or arrested. Both teaches you to look ahead or look where you want to go. Like Godsuki said, you can take what you learn on the track to the street but you can't take the MSF to the track. If you were on a bridge, and the it is a decreasing radius, you are going too fast, what do you do??????? MSF teaches you to brake and stand the bike up, if you do that then you will run straight into the wall and fall off the bridge like many have died. If you know how to drag a knee, or lean it and trail brake you have a better survival rate of low siding and not falling off the bridge. But if you take MSF, it teaches you to obey the laws and be aware of the unknown. So, therefore you shouldn't be hauling on the bridge like an idiot anyway. I thought that I was fast on the street before. After attending trackday, I realized that I am not. Now, that I am a little faster on the track, I became very slow on the street until that craziness comes out. Hope that makes sense and help.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:42 AM   #29
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BIG THANKS!

Thanks for the feedback. Lots of great points to digest. This was the exact type of info I was looking to get. I'll save my money for the Adv. MSF course for a speeding ticket
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:21 AM   #30
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what are "your" goals for the class?
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
what are "your" goals for the class?
To ride like a "smart and safe" bat out of , both on the track and street.

I really wanted input, pros and cons, from both courses. I'm sure they each carry thier own benefit, but wanted to hear people's experience/knowledge of the two.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsuki View Post
As a track day instructor, and former MSF instructor, you will get much more out of the track day than you will the advanced MSF course.

At the track you will learn how to handle things thrown at you at high speeds, such as how to safely handle a blind, decreasing radius corner that sneaks up on you on the road, you will learn how to brake properly from big speed, and use more of your brakes than you thought your tires or ability could handle. You'll learn how to commit to a corner, and use proper throttle control to adjust lines, and speed. You'll have a safe place to learn to trail brake, and how to use it effectively.

The track is not just about going fast, but about combining all aspects of motorcycling riding, without oncoming traffic, or any other hazards you will encounter on public roads.

Very little of what you learn on the street will carry over to the track, but everything you learn on the track you can take back to the streets.
i was just gonna say that. heres my nickel, i recently bought a track bike and did my first two track days, i even lowsided sunday at msr-h. there is nothing from the street u can bring to the track. i am grateful i crashed there and not on the street, i have a small bruise and abrasion on my right elbow and nothing else. I wasn't sore the next day at all except the body parts i used when learning proper body positioning. My crash made me realize how to lean the bike and my body properly. now i feel more confident on the street, but also ready to get back on the track and hone my skills. Godzuki is an awesome instructor and he will tow u around at speeds u never thought u coud do. I was dragging knees following him on only my second track day. People say thats a good sign but ill be back soon. Definately choose the track over a cramped parking lot anyday!
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
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what are "your" goals for the class?
The goal of every motorcyclist is to be the best rider they could be. If you are on a motorcycle, you need to have basic and advance msf and you need to attend several track days. A person that has the knowledge of both area will always be a better rider.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:19 PM   #34
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HMM, best dam rider, if i'm a commuter do i need to know how to get my knee down or max my braking potential.

diff .strokes for diff folks.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphin View Post
msf will teach you how to stay safe on the street, track will teach you how to use the abilty of the bike to go fast. you dont want to try and carry over what you learn on the track to the street because the street isnt a place to try and drag knee.
Since this is all you will learn at the track.

Track fo sho.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
HMM, best dam rider, if i'm a commuter do i need to know how to get my knee down or max my braking potential.

diff .strokes for diff folks.
Get a knee down........no. Max brakinging potential.........absolutely.

Here is my perspective. The better track rider I become, the slower things seem to happen. When I first started on the track, corners came up almost faster than I could handle. Get on the brake, blip the throttle, downshift, position body, steering input, look thru corner, brake off, throttle on.............so many things to do and think about and so little time to get it all done. It was scary.

The better I get, the slower it all seems now. Some actions have become automatic responses without thought. I can actually think myself all the way thru a corner without running out of time. Does this help me on the street?? Without a doubt, it most certainly does.

A car trying to share my lane. No big deal I'm used to close quarters now and I have the reactions and time to manuever out of the way. Emergency braking situation, fine, been there and done that on the track hundreds of times. I can stand it on its nose without losing control or locking up the rear brake and I know that if I need to turn to avoid something all I have to do is let up on the brake and make the turn. Turn it sharp to avoid something, even at highway speed, no problem, I've made plenty of quick sharp turns, to the point of knee dragging on the track so a quick turn at 60 or 70 mph is cake.

Can you develope these responses in a parking lot, maybe. Can you do it on the street, not at legal speeds.

I could go on but those who believe will continue to believe and those who don't either never will or will learn it the hard way.

I firmly believe MSF is the way to start your motorcycle riding education. Track riding is how you complete it.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
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HMM, best dam rider, if i'm a commuter do i need to know how to get my knee down or max my braking potential.

diff .strokes for diff folks.
It's a skill or tool if you need to rely on it. Just like knowing how to shoot a gun. No one needs a gun, but they have it just for protection. Why not expand your thought horizon and learn something new? Learning is never a bad thing.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:39 PM   #38
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agreed, but if you have only 1 to chose from.

i would say BOTH.

or maybe this

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...38#post1433138
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Last edited by RACER X; 09-10-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Get a knee down........no. Max brakinging potential.........absolutely.

Here is my perspective. The better track rider I become, the slower things seem to happen. When I first started on the track, corners came up almost faster than I could handle. Get on the brake, blip the throttle, downshift, position body, steering input, look thru corner, brake off, throttle on.............so many things to do and think about and so little time to get it all done. It was scary.

The better I get, the slower it all seems now. Some actions have become automatic responses without thought. I can actually think myself all the way thru a corner without running out of time. Does this help me on the street?? Without a doubt, it most certainly does.

A car trying to share my lane. No big deal I'm used to close quarters now and I have the reactions and time to manuever out of the way. Emergency braking situation, fine, been there and done that on the track hundreds of times. I can stand it on its nose without losing control or locking up the rear brake and I know that if I need to turn to avoid something all I have to do is let up on the brake and make the turn. Turn it sharp to avoid something, even at highway speed, no problem, I've made plenty of quick sharp turns, to the point of knee dragging on the track so a quick turn at 60 or 70 mph is cake.

Can you develope these responses in a parking lot, maybe. Can you do it on the street, not at legal speeds.

I could go on but those who believe will continue to believe and those who don't either never will or will learn it the hard way.

I firmly believe MSF is the way to start your motorcycle riding education. Track riding is how you complete it.
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