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Old 08-14-2008, 01:09 AM   #1
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HRC give 2009 RC212V to Nakano!! Ummmm!!

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This weekend's Czech Republic Grand Prix will be a special event for Shinya Nakano and Gresini Racing, since it will mark the Japanese rider's debut on an early version of Honda's 2009 satellite-spec RC212V.

Nakano's modest season so far, a best race finish of ninth and tenth position in the world championship standings, makes his promotion to what is effectively a factory ride - the 2009 satellite bike will essentially be Dani Pedrosa's 2008 (valve spring) Repsol machine - somewhat controversial, especially since rookie Andrea Dovizioso has put his JiR machine fifth in the championship with three fourth places.

Nevertheless, team principal Fausto Gresini points to 30-year-old Nakano's wealth of experience, ease of communication with the factory and his 2008 consistency - only Nakano and Valentino Rossi have scored points in all eleven rounds so far.

Gresini also sees Shinya's selection in more general terms, as a reward from HRC for the team's performances in recent seasons. Gresini Honda finished second in the MotoGP World Championship in 2003 and 2004 with Sete Gibernau and then in 2005 with Marco Melandri. Melandri also won more races than any other Honda rider in 2006, although the team - like all the satellite Honda teams - was winless in 2007.

"HRC have entrusted our team and Shinya Nakano with development of the 2009 satellite version Honda RC212V - a decision that gives us a lot of satisfaction and consolidates our status as a leading team in the eyes of Honda, as we have been for several years," said Gresini. "We're really happy to have this opportunity and we will give our best to make the most of it.

"Riding the evolution machine is also a good chance for Shinya, who has been selected because of his good reputation as a development rider as well as for his native language," the Italian explained.

It will be interesting to see how a machine based around Michelin tyres (used by Repsol Honda) adapts to the rival Bridgestone rubber used by Gresini - and Nakano admitted to feeling both excitement and nerves at the challenge ahead.

"My crew and myself have been given a great challenge for the this weekend, taking a completely new bike to the track - an RC212V similar to the one ridden by Dani Pedrosa," began Nakano, a former Yamaha and Kawasaki MotoGP rider.

"At the start of the season you have all the time you need to set a bike up and adapt it to your riding style whereas now we'll have to do it against the clock," he explained. "From the first free practice we'll have to work flat out and hope that the weather is on our side because we will need all four sessions to fully understand the bike.

"In any case, the chance to ride it at Brno, a technical circuit that is used a lot for testing and is one I really like, makes me optimistic. On paper the new bike is more powerful than the one we've been using so far, which is an important factor at this track," he added.

Pedrosa has taken his factory RCV to two race wins so far this season and was on top of the world championship prior to falling from the lead of the wet German Grand Prix.

The 2009 satellite Hondas will be the only Japanese MotoGP machines without pneumatic-valve engines next season.

Factory rider Nicky Hayden has been race-developing Honda's pneumatic design for the past four rounds, with team-mate Pedrosa due to test the powerplant after this weekend's event.
You can interpret this in many ways but this has to be the strongest indicator yet that Repsol Honda (the official factory team) will be running Bridgestones some time soon IMO.
Why else would you give the most important prototype in Hondas garage to an under achieving team running different brand tyres??
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:44 AM   #2
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With the switch to pneumatic valves.......is it the most important prototype anymore? Seems to me like Nakano is getting Repsol's leftovers.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
With the switch to pneumatic valves.......is it the most important prototype anymore? Seems to me like Nakano is getting Repsol's leftovers.
It's a "left over" of sorts, but you need to understand that normally there's no way for satellite teams to be able to get a current steed from the factories. Usually, satellite teams can't touch those bikes for 1-2 years after they are used. It's a big deal!

Besides, I don't think that Pedrosa has moved fully to the pneumatic valve bike or he is supposed to officially make the full switch this weekend
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
It's a "left over" of sorts, but you need to understand that normally there's no way for satellite teams to be able to get a current steed from the factories. Usually, satellite teams can't touch those bikes for 1-2 years after they are used. It's a big deal!

Besides, I don't think that Pedrosa has moved fully to the pneumatic valve bike or he is supposed to officially make the full switch this weekend
Pedrosa isn't on the pneumatic valve bike yet, but Hayden has been on it for 4-5 races now? Its far fetched, but the spring valve bike seems to be "last years" bike so Nakano getting on still comes across as leftovers to me. I mean.....since the switch to 800cc just happened last season, no is riding a bike thats older than 2 years.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Pedrosa isn't on the pneumatic valve bike yet, but Hayden has been on it for 4-5 races now? Its far fetched, but the spring valve bike seems to be "last years" bike so Nakano getting on still comes across as leftovers to me. I mean.....since the switch to 800cc just happened last season, no is riding a bike thats older than 2 years.
I think Pedrosa is going to be on the pneumatic valve bike this weekend iirc.

The reference about the technology (being 1-2 years) isn't just the engine- besides, the first 800's were modified 990's- the chassis and suspension technology isn't fully given to the satellite teams. I didn't mean to sound so literal about the time frames, just illustrate that the satellite teams don't get the "good stuff" until well after it's been put out by comparison to the newer technology.

Like I mentioned in the other post- if Pedrosa is using the pneumatic valve this weekend, it's a huge deal that a satellite team will get to use something so recent from the factory.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:37 AM   #6
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Pedrosa is testing the pneumatic engine after the races....FYI

I think HRC wants to test out the Stones on thier "good" chassis..lol
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:44 AM   #7
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Can some one please explain how a pneumatic valve would work? I now how a spring is used to close a valve.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GABRIEL View Post
Can some one please explain how a pneumatic valve would work? I now how a spring is used to close a valve.
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I don't know, good question, but I think it's actuated by a pneumatic "pusher" to open/ close the valves, set off by the computer. Less reciprocating parts?
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Little men with straws under the tank cover...
I don't know, good question, but I think it's actuated by a pneumatic "pusher" to open/ close the valves, set off by the computer. Less reciprocating parts?

Pneumatic valve springs are metal bellows filled with compressed air[1] occupying roughly the same space of metal springs used to close valves in high-speed internal combustion engines. This system was introduced in the mid-1980s in Renault turbocharged 1.5 litre Formula 1 engines.

Reducing the number of moving parts that can fail is good engineering. Racing engines often failed at high speeds because mechanical springs were unable to close valves fast enough, leading to engine failure when piston struck incompletely closed valves. Renault's innovation was to replace steel springs with light weight compressed air bellows that could respond more quickly and reduce the possibility of valve crashes, other than from leaking bellows. Additionally, the amount of seat tension required to keep a coil sprung valve under control results in peak lift loading drastically higher, with added stress to the entire valvetrain as a result. Pneumatic systems, sharing a common reservoir of pressure retain a more static level of force, controlling the valve effectively, without any attendant peak lift load increase. To avoid bellows failures, air springs are replaced often.

Pneumatic valve springs gave Renault an advantage with its turbocharged engines, often said to be the most powerful. However, reliability and poor handling of their chassis kept the cars from success until 1989 when Renault provided Williams with its V10 engine to begin a winning streak. Renault won the constructors' championship with Williams in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1997, and with Benetton in 1995. Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve each won a Driver's championship in the 1990s with Renault engines.

While pneumatic valve springs have become standard in Formula 1 engines, Renault has been researching computer controlled electro hydraulic valves using no camshaft, to reduce moving parts while improving valve control.

Pneumatic valve springs are also found in several Moto GP motorcycle engines, debuting in 2002 with the Aprilia RS3 Cube. In 2005, Team Roberts was the first to use pneumatic valves full time in their uncompetitive KTM powered bike. Today, almost all of the MotoGP teams use pneumatic valve technology on their bikes, including Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki. Honda only has one bike out of four that use pneumatic valves. Ducati uses a desmodromic design.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:14 PM   #10
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GABRIEL View Post

Pneumatic valve springs are metal bellows filled with compressed air[1] occupying roughly the same space of metal springs used to close valves in high-speed internal combustion engines. This system was introduced in the mid-1980s in Renault turbocharged 1.5 litre Formula 1 engines.

Reducing the number of moving parts that can fail is good engineering. Racing engines often failed at high speeds because mechanical springs were unable to close valves fast enough, leading to engine failure when piston struck incompletely closed valves. Renault's innovation was to replace steel springs with light weight compressed air bellows that could respond more quickly and reduce the possibility of valve crashes, other than from leaking bellows. Additionally, the amount of seat tension required to keep a coil sprung valve under control results in peak lift loading drastically higher, with added stress to the entire valvetrain as a result. Pneumatic systems, sharing a common reservoir of pressure retain a more static level of force, controlling the valve effectively, without any attendant peak lift load increase. To avoid bellows failures, air springs are replaced often.

Pneumatic valve springs gave Renault an advantage with its turbocharged engines, often said to be the most powerful. However, reliability and poor handling of their chassis kept the cars from success until 1989 when Renault provided Williams with its V10 engine to begin a winning streak. Renault won the constructors' championship with Williams in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1997, and with Benetton in 1995. Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve each won a Driver's championship in the 1990s with Renault engines.

While pneumatic valve springs have become standard in Formula 1 engines, Renault has been researching computer controlled electro hydraulic valves using no camshaft, to reduce moving parts while improving valve control.

Pneumatic valve springs are also found in several Moto GP motorcycle engines, debuting in 2002 with the Aprilia RS3 Cube. In 2005, Team Roberts was the first to use pneumatic valves full time in their uncompetitive KTM powered bike. Today, almost all of the MotoGP teams use pneumatic valve technology on their bikes, including Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki. Honda only has one bike out of four that use pneumatic valves. Ducati uses a desmodromic design.
Now that would be impressive
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:32 AM   #12
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Now that would be impressive
I was thinking the same thing. That would be awsome.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:58 AM   #13
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Well at least we know the new Honda chassis works on the Bridgestone rains.

Nakano = P3 in the FP1 & P4 in FP2
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi jm View Post
Well at least we know the new Honda chassis works on the Bridgestone rains.

Nakano = P3 in the FP1 & P4 in FP2
nakano, 4th in the race so I'd say it suits the slicks too
good result for him
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
nakano, 4th in the race so I'd say it suits the slicks too
good result for him

Yeap, John you should start giving big discounts on the stones cause i can see michellin walking out the door. mmm maybe they will be more expensive since they are the top tire in F1 and now in MotoGp. mmmforget my last comment, cheaper tires please lol
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