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Old 07-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmckee View Post
The blame should NOT be on its "leader," organizer, or sweeper.

Each individual is accountable for his or hers OWN actions. Just as if they were riding alone.
EXACTLY!!! And tiatool you organize some of the best rides I've ever seen! But how as a leader or whatever can you trust other peoples riding skills, you cant! I think in smaller groups people have no choice but to stay with the groups pace and follow the line..

I see noobs fallen back and they ride beyond there limits to keep up thats where the problem lies
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #42
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I have been out there and been passed by the "designated sweeper" before and left by myself.
This is the 1st I've heard of that. If it was a ride I put on, your bad for not bringing it up so I could fix that situation IMMEDIATELY. I choose the sweeper as a responsible person, and that is not being responsible.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #43
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I have been out there and been passed by the "designated sweeper" before and left by myself.
My last group ride was set up by a responsible rider that I enjoyed riding with. He was leader and I was sweeper. I pretty much ended up being the sweeper for him because everyone else passed him.
My favorite reason people ride so fast is because "that's what the bike was made for."

I just ride alone now.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:10 PM   #44
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This is the 1st I've heard of that. If it was a ride I put on, your bad for not bringing it up so I could fix that situation IMMEDIATELY. I choose the sweeper as a responsible person, and that is not being responsible.
and i wasnt the sweeper for that one!
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:11 PM   #45
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link to locked thread please.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:11 PM   #46
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The people going down are usually the ones that have been riding for a year, or longer, and have gotten comfortable riding the off ramps and onramps, and streets or 'routes' in their area well. EXPERIENCE is learning what to watch when coming around a blind corner, how to trace a line and follow it and how to allow room for error and correction.

The forest doesn't judge people. Short of rocks or dead animals its unchanged. Its the riders that haven't prepared themselves for it past their own abilities; or that day you're off and have an accident


If anyone wants to ride small groups, go for it... I do the same... I also ride w larger groups... I ride solo and one up. I have dragged knee on public roads on the busa and hit numbers slightly over the speed limit. I also had rides I was honest and for some reason had to stop cause a recommended 25mph corner on a 60mph road I couldnt take.... And guess what, I was on a forest ride that day w 20 some others and I stopped. And one of the regulars was there to check on me... Actually saw me earlier and knew something was up...

So everyone has their opinion... Dont cage match if as physical as you get is left-right-down-X-A-B-B for a power punch. You will get over your head. But if you wanna come, we'll sparr a bit with you and help you appreciate the sport more. If you jump into the ring headstrong I feel sorry for you but will be there when you get knocked out.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:11 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmckee View Post
The blame should NOT be on its "leader," organizer, or sweeper.

Each individual is accountable for his or hers OWN actions. Just as if they were riding alone.
aaaagreed.


I learned to ride out there. I rode with guys out there that showed me how to look threw the corner, get off the bike, and ride it just like a track.

and yuup, I have been down out there.

But I won't stop, neither will my crew, you know who you are.

But these are private PM rides, not sat. morning group rides.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Who said we were blaming the leader? I don't blame the leaders at all.
What are you trying to accomplish?

or what do you want discussed?

Posting of rides on mh?
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #49
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Who said we were blaming the leader? I don't blame the leaders at all.
so who is to blame then? I have set up rides and been the leader or someone ask me to lead, only to be passed by 8 others while i was doing 5 over posted speed limit...
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #50
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People go down in small group rides too. Been there and seen it.
TRUE! no matter what $hits gonna happen! bikes are not safe!
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKLYNBULLET View Post
EXACTLY!!! And tiatool you organize some of the best rides I've ever seen! But how as a leader or whatever can you trust other peoples riding skills, you cant! I think in smaller groups people have no choice but to stay with the groups pace and follow the line..

I see noobs fallen back and they ride beyond there limits to keep up thats where the problem lies



That is where the break in logic lies though. We wait for everyone no matter how long it takes. At each intersection. PERIOD. There should be no pressure to keep up with anyone. And that is said at the first rider meeting on 242.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:13 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideForrestride View Post
People go down in small group rides too. Been there and seen it.
I will put money on it that not as many go down in smaller groups than in the big groups. I have taken a few small groups out there (4-5 people) many of them people who had never been to the forest before. We have yet to have issues. Not claiming that I am a great leader, or that other's are not. I don't thing the big groups are a good idea

What I am saying is the bigger the group, the more the trouble that tends to happen.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:14 PM   #53
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Quote:
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I have been out there and been passed by the "designated sweeper" before and left by myself.
Is it possible that you overqualified yourself and chose the wrong group to ride in? Many of the new riders do that.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:16 PM   #54
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Quote:
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The blame should NOT be on its "leader," organizer, or sweeper.

Each individual is accountable for his or hers OWN actions. Just as if they were riding alone.
x2

Last weekend was my first time out to the forest, it was as organized as a large group ride could of been. I can for sure see how soo many people go down out there. I imagine many riders go out there and refuse to ride in the beginner group due to their ego and get over there head on unknown roads. This past weekend I chose to ride in the beginner group right behind cali's leed on 3090, there were times were I could have taken the corners faster but probably would of gotten into trouble since I didn't know the roads ahead. There were also many people out there complaining of riders nailing it on the straights and then slamming on the brakes entering a turn, maybe add this to the pre-ride meeting?
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
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I will put money on it that not as many go down in smaller groups than in the big groups. I have taken a few small groups out there (4-5 people) many of them people who had never been to the forest before. We have yet to have issues. Not claiming that I am a great leader, or that other's are not. I don't thing the big groups are a good idea

What I am saying is the bigger the group, the more the trouble that tends to happen.
well of course, thats the law of ratios. not to mention all the extra people to show off to

I still don't get what you want to be accomplished?
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:16 PM   #56
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I have been out there and been passed by the "designated sweeper" before and left by myself.
On one of our rides?
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:17 PM   #57
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Quote:
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What are you trying to accomplish?

or what do you want discussed?

Posting of rides on mh?
I think the first step towards making these safer would be limiting the size.

Or maybe designate a sweeper to say 5 people. That person can keep an eye on those and give them advice to help ride safer/better.

There is lots of things we could do to make these rides safer, saying there is nothing we can do and what happens will happen is plain foolish.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:17 PM   #58
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No offense to anyone here...

IF YOU WERE A RIDER THAT WENT DOWN IN A LARGE GROUP FOREST RIDE AN BLAME US FOR PACE OR ORGANIZATION(NUMBER OF PEOPLE ETC) AND BEING REASON OF YOU GOING OFF THE ROAD OR HAVING THE ACCIDENT, POST UP...

Otherwise, this book is closed in my opinion.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
[/B]


That is where the break in logic lies though. We wait for everyone no matter how long it takes. At each intersection. PERIOD. There should be no pressure to keep up with anyone. And that is said at the first rider meeting on 242.
you can say that all you want, but you get a bunch of 20-something adult males together on sportbikes and it's nearly impossible to keep those egos in check. no one wants to be the slowest guy. therein lies the problem. and why organized rides with people you don't know well, never work.

ride with people you know and trust. there's much less showboating that way.

if ya'll continue to have organized rides with strangers, you will continue to have the problem of people going down, or even dying. it's a fact of life.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:19 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
This is the 1st I've heard of that. If it was a ride I put on, your bad for not bringing it up so I could fix that situation IMMEDIATELY. I choose the sweeper as a responsible person, and that is not being responsible.
Agreed. But when I started mentioning anything I thought about the ride that was unsafe I got bashed and flamed in the thread and called a liar. I spared the above mentioned person the embarrassment of posting it about them, since I do consider them a friend of mine as I do all of you guys.
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